Since the first days of Henry Ford's
Model T Americans have had a love affair with their cars. After our
home they are the biggest ticket item in our budget. We have sung
songs in their honor and they have starred in our movies. They are
an expression of who we are. Recently my readers, you know who you
are, expressed an interest in discussing the future of electric
vehicles (EV's). So I have done some research and have found a few
things that may be of interest and pertinent to some of the issues
raised, such as battery operation.
This first video is a nice overview of
how an electric car, specifically the Tesla Model S, works.
Obviously the battery in the Tesla does
not lend itself to convenient swapping, so in this case the recharge
is critical. In this video the various options are discussed.
As you no doubt noticed the time needed
to recharge the battery is rather, well, long. At least compared to
simply filling up your tank with gas. There is also the fact that
the charge doesn't last for a lengthy road trip, meaning you will
need to stop and recharge, adding more time to the trip. You will
also note that there is the issue of making sure the battery doesn't
get too hot.
In this video that lengthy charge time
is addressed.
Hmm...yes, there do seem to be some
issues with trying to lower the charge time. That brings us back to
swapping out the battery at a charging/swapping station. Apparently
that is not impossible as it was tried in Israel, according to this
article.
I noticed that within that article
there is a link to another about charging highways. That is,
creating the infrastructure within the highway itself to recharge the
battery as you drive. But, like other options, there are drawbacks.
Not least of which is how a pacemaker would react to the magnetic
charge.
One thing that the author of the
article mentioned in the last paragraph was about watching what India
and China do. I found that interesting because it does seem that in
the case of EV's the leaders will not be in the United States.
Whatever happens in the future may
depend upon whether or not EV's can find a place in the hearts of
those who have always just loved to drive, as far or as fast as they
can.
Or maybe as creatively as they can. This movie had some serious driving in
it!
217 comments:
1 – 200 of 217 Newer› Newest»Okay, so here's another flaw in that ‘battery swapping’ idea that Petes mentioned.
General Motors, (GM) or Ford (no favorite initials), or whomever, are gonna make and sell vehicles that depend on JBG.inc (Jewish Battery Guy Incorporated) remaining solvent for the foreseeable future?
‘Cause if he goes Chapter Seven Bankrupt in ten years then all those vehicles they made those last ten years which depend on him to swap batteries, those are now lawn ornaments until somebody figures out a new business model to keep them charged.
That means he's got ‘em by the balls; their customers too.
Neither GM nor Ford (nor their customers) are gonna go for that one.
They have to make sure that they're not dependent on third parties, unless there's a thriving, competitive third party market for the services their machines will need (like the oil companies were originally).
Henry Ford made electrics back before he made the Model T. There's a reason the Model T survived and the Ford electric did not, and it wasn't superior performance from the Model T nor cheaper operation costs.
We can skip that battery swap thing until there's a backup for that plan, just in case JBG.inc suddenly decides to play hardball.
By the way, I did notice that the nearest local high-end grocery store (no we do not have WholeFoods stores ‘round here, but we do have one smaller chain that strives to be high-end), they've put up two vehicle battery charging stations in preferred parking places at their local store (near the front door, just next to the handicapped and preggo parking). Happened in just the last few months.
We can skip that battery swap thing until there's a backup for that plan, just in case JBG.inc suddenly decides to play hardball.
The solution would probably be for the car companies to have a battery swapping division, creating their own infrastructure to support the cars they make. As demand rises there would, one would think, be independents that could supply batteries as well.
... they've put up two vehicle battery charging stations in preferred parking places at their local store...
I haven't noticed any around here yet. They might have some down nearer the Cities. I will have to ask our IT guy where he charges his Tesla.
Usually it takes me at least 40 - 45 minutes when I grocery shop. I suppose I could plug in my car while I am doing that, but it still seems inconvenient. Especially if you might have to leave suddenly, and come to find out your car hasn't charged enough to get you where you want to go. You also have to plan a little more with these kinds of cars.
There's been another earthquake in Mexico, a 6.1 magnitude quake.
It looks like the president is on the attack this morning against McCain, as well as Steph Curry of the Golden State Warriors. McCain had the audacity to vote against a bill Trump supports and, apparently Curry had the temerity to object to some of Trump's views. So Trump has rescinded the White House invitation to his team. Ahh...the Trump era of free speech.
Well, actually, McCain hasn't voted yet.
"…, but it still seems inconvenient."
They do get favored parking spaces, right next to the front doors.
On Friday Trump finally adopted Marcus' argument for the wall, i.e. that it would stop drug smugglers. Except he then immediately shot down that theory by explaining that the drug smugglers had ‘catapults’ to thwart his wall. " They have catapults. They throw it over the wall, and it lands and it hit somebody on the head. You don't even know they're there. Believe it or not, this is the kind of stuff that happens."
"So Trump has rescinded the White House invitation to his team."
Except, I'm pretty sure the Golden State Warriors had already very publicly declined the invitation to the White House. I think I read that last week.
And I'm guessing the grocery store chain figures on people just topping off their car charge back to full while they're shopping, not charging it from full depletion back to full charge.
Yay! I inspireed a thread!
Lee: "We can skip that battery swap thing until there's a backup for that plan, just in case JBG.inc suddenly decides to play hardball."
I myself think battary swap is a dead end. It could be done but in practice I don't think it will be. And if it will be then it'll be for trucks, not cars.
A current Tesla can run about 600 KM, meaning about 35 miles on one charge. It takes soem time to charge it at your home, but at a super-charge station it can be done in about 40 minutes.
Also the next model of Tesla will be cheaper AND will be able (they say) to run 1000 KM oon a charge.
Nissan Leaf is out with a new model. It was the budget version of EV:s and had the drawback of being awefully UGLY before. Now it looks OK and has better range than before (not like Tesla, Tesla is still the best EV out there, although also the priciest). Huyndai came out with an EV just recently. I have yet to see a review but Huyndai cars are often quite good.
"I myself think battary swap…will be…for trucks, not cars."
That seems not unreasonable.
"…at a super-charge station it can be done in about 40 minutes."
Could be I was wrong about those charging stations at the grocery store not being intended to fully charge a depleted auto.
"I'm pretty sure the Golden State Warriors had already very
publicly declined the invitation to the White House."
I had that wrong. Individual team members had publicly declined the invitation; they weren't going to go. But the owners of the team hadn't taken a position on it yet.
"Usually it takes me at least 40 - 45 minutes when I grocery shop."
Used to take me an hour or two but I've barely been in a grocery store for three years. All done online and delivered by a refrigerated truck. It's a different take on how to save on oil use.
"Well, actually, McCain hasn't voted yet."
From what I'm seeing, there are Republicans still working hard on the Cassidy-Graham iteration of ‘repeal and replace’. I don't know that Mitch McConnell is actually among those Republicans, but there as some still working it. (Cassidy and Graham are among those still trying to pull it out.) Two Republicans have declared as opposed already; John McCain getting big news as the second negative Republican.
Lisa Murkowski of Alaska has not declared on this one, and, as Lynnette noted in the last thread, they're trying hard to throw benefits at Alaska to bribe her into voting in favor this time.
Susan Collins of Maine, who was a ‘No’ vote on both prior iterations has also not declared a position on this one. However, she is a scheduled guest on a couple of tomorrow's Sunday morning talking heads shows. We will probably have a declaration from her, yes/no/maybe, by noon tomorrow.
Maybe ought to mention for the foreigners: The Republicans have only a two-vote majority in the Senate; a third "No" vote kills it.
I have difficulty getting excited by "repeal and replace". I put it in the same category as most of the current Brexit shenanigans in the UK. Most of it reflects internecine party wrangling. The only difference is the US can drag it out ad infinitum whereas the Brits will be cut off at the knees by external forces in twelve months time whether they've agreed anything or not.
"The only difference is the US can drag it out ad infinitum…"
Nope. The Republicans have to wrap it up by September 30th, week from today. Otherwise their ‘reconciliation’ authority expires and any attempts to repeal ObamaCare are again subject to filibuster by the Democrats (meaning they'd need 60 votes to get it through the Senate and they only got 52 Republicans).
[Marcus]: "Nissan Leaf is out with a new model. It was the budget version of EV:s and had the drawback of being awefully UGLY before. Now it looks OK and has better range than before (not like Tesla, Tesla is still the best EV out there, although also the priciest)."
I don't disagree with you but, funny enough, I'm hearing more than a few people saying that the new Leaf might be their opportunity to buy a second hand first generation one cheaply. That says two things to me: 1) new EV sales are still the domain of wealthy econuts and eccentrics; even with generous subsidies the average person is not yet thinking their next car has to be an EV; 2) price and reliability drives pretty much everything; people are looking at the battery life and maintenance costs of first gen EVs and seeing that they have exceeded expectations; a sub-€10k second hand car with low road taxes, free charging, and the prospect of another 100,000 km of trouble free driving is quite attractive. But it is still a tiny niche.
Plus, the low taxes and vehicle and fuel subsidies cannot persist. And low oil prices currently create a headwind for EV sales. Even if EVs are the future, I don't see them making a substantial difference for at least twenty five years and maybe more.
It takes soem time to charge it at your home, but at a super-charge station it can be done in about 40 minutes.
Apparently you have to be careful how many times in a row you use the fast charge because you need to let the battery cool down between charges. The faster the charge the hotter the battery gets.
So, are you looking to buy, Marcus?
Used to take me an hour or two but I've barely been in a grocery store for three years. All done online and delivered by a refrigerated truck.
We have that here as well with some grocery chains. I've thought about it. Grocery shopping is my least favorite thing. You end up having to handle your purchases four times. The 40 - 45 time estimated was going fast. :)
...the Brits will be cut off at the knees by external forces in twelve months time whether they've agreed anything or not.
I think I read somewhere that they're trying to drag it out two years?
If I may return briefly to ObamaCare…
An important follow-up to the ObamaCare spectacle is this: Repealing ObamaCare would free up several hundred billion dollars in government subsidy payments allocated to help the poor purchase medical insurance.
The Republicans have a long promised ‘tax reform’ bill coming up next (which will be taken up under next year's ‘reconciliation’ package if they can first get a shell budget, an outline, passed through both the House and Senate). However, their economic policy is a faerie tale and quite a few of them know it. So, they're going to have trouble getting to an agreement for more tax cuts for the rich (a perennial Republican wish list item) on account of that will blow up the deficit (which is precariously high already), and that offends the balanced-budget members of their coalition.
They have little chance of actually pulling it off. I don't think they can do it. But, they stand a much better chance if they have those several hundred billion dollars in savings from the cancellation of ObamaCare to throw into their ‘tax reform’ shell game.
Without that money, they don't think they can pull of an agreement on a tax bill either, and we may be looking at a government shutdown as soon as the borrowing authorization they just passed last month runs out of money. (That last one would be the deal Shorthands just cut with ‘Chuck and Nancy’ which included money for hurricane relief.)
Post Script:
Trump has threatened to take executive action to suspend those government subsidy payments for the poor to purchase health insurance. This would price the poor out of their insurance policies (and, by almost everyone's analysis, crash ObamaCare; kill it without repealing it). That threat is still out there, and it would free up that money for the Republicans' ‘tax reform’ efforts.
Okay then, now back to batteries and such…
No, one more aside into American politics.
This poll seems to imply there is trouble for the GOP. However, as you read down a bit you notice that it is the GOP legislators that are the most unpopular, not Trump. Apparently there are Republicans out there who actually support his policies, and at a large percentage. Given the latest brouhaha over NFL players taking a knee to protest race relations in America, and Trump's remarks regarding that, the fact that so many people support Trump is rather scary for America.
"Apparently there are Republicans out there who actually support
his policies…"
Yeah, I saw that one go by yesterday I think it was. But those are people who answer to being a Republican (not counting those who ‘lean’ Republican but won't claim it). First of last year that was 26% of the population (probably less now).
The things you should keep in mind about Trump's most recent ‘brouhaha’ include these:
1. Trump went off on the NFL and its players just hours after John McCain announced that he was a "no" vote on the newest ‘repeal and replace’ farce.
2. Trump picked Alabama to stake out the fight.
2a. Alabama is excessively white.
2b. Alabama is excessively poor white.
2c. Alabama doesn't have any pro-football teams.
2d. Pro football teams are stocked (80%) with rich black guys (as the poor white guys see it) who just happened to hit the lottery (as those poor white guys see it).
By the way, Susan Collins said today that she can't see herself supporting the most recent iteration of ‘repeal and replace’. This is her warning to McConnell not to push her on it, she'll announce herself as a ‘No’ vote if he forces her to.
Angela Merkel's party has taken the German elections with roughly 32.5% of the vote. Next best showing was the Social Democrats at 20%. The right-winger, anti-immigrant party came in third at 13.5%.
It will be a coalition government, but that's the rule in German elections.
And I've seen numbers on the NFL that don't match my earlier recollections. Seems it's 70% black guys instead of 80%.
[Lynnette]: "The 40 - 45 time estimated was going fast"
Yeah, I thought that sounded optimistic. I reckon my typical shopping time including 10 minutes each way to the supermarket was well over two hours.
I've only tried one retailer's online system but I've never looked back. Delivery charges work out at maybe 2% of the cost of groceries. That is more than offset by the reduction in impulse buys, let alone the cost of getting to the store and parking or the value of your own time. Plus it's more eco-friendly. Less fuel is used on delivery and the goods are packed loose in shipping crates plus a few paper bags, instead of lots of plastic ones.
Orders can be created by picking items off previous orders, various "favourites" lists, category lists, or flexible searches. You get all the same special offers as in-store (except they're easier to find), same shelf lives / use-by dates, and there's a totally no quibble refund for anything you don't like the look of.
They pick an alternative product for anything out of stock, but you can just send it back if you don't like it (or include instructions on acceptable replacements on the order). I can order up to 4am for delivery that same morning and the goods are delivered to my kitchen counter. I can even pre-order the Christmas turkey on it! :-)
I'm probably starting to sound like an ad for online shopping ... but it's insanely great. I'd really never consider anything else again.
"... the latest brouhaha over NFL players taking a knee to protest race relations in America"
What a bunch of idiots! :(
You figure them being idiots is what accounts for the fact that black guys are six times more likely to get shot after a traffic stop than white guys?
Yeah, probably.
I reckon my typical shopping time including 10 minutes each way to the supermarket was well over two hours.
I didn't include travel time, as that is negligible. I live only a couple blocks away from my grocery store.
I go with a list so I have few impulse items. Although sometimes there are things that manage to fall into my cart. lol! I finally tried sushi that way.
Walmart is going to be getting into home delivery for groceries. But they will put the purchases in your home for you, if given access. I don't think I would want to give someone I don't know the ability to enter my home if I weren't there.
By the way, Susan Collins said today that she can't see herself supporting the most recent iteration of ‘repeal and replace’.
Ted Cruz is acting coy too. But probably for different reasons than Susan Collins. I am actually kind of interested to see how Murkowski of Alaska votes. If she votes "yes", considering that this bill is little different from the skinny repeal, except for some concessions to some states, including Alaska, I will be disappointed in her. What's good for the country should be the priority.
2. Trump picked Alabama to stake out the fight.
Preaching to the choir may be costly for him. It seems there were quite a few people in the NFL who were out protesting today. But now it is Trump, and his remarks, that are the target.
Today is independence referendum day in Iraq Kurdistan. Polls open in just over two hours.
The Graham-Cassidy iteration of ‘repeal and replace’ is again being tweaked to add further funding specifically to the states of Alaska (Lisa Murkowski), Arizona (John McCain) and Kentucky (Rand Paul). Murkowski has been ‘dubious’ about this attempt, while the other two have outright declared against it.
They may get Murkowski (probably not, but maybe), or Rand Paul. McCain won't be bought I don't think. He'll want to go out with his honor intact, in case he's gonna be checking out soon.
Iran has just closed its border with Iraqi Kurdistan this morning, at the request of the government in Baghdad.
Both Turkey and Iran had already closed their airspace to flights originating out of Iraqi Kurdistan.
The KRG has been pretty good at making sure their moves toward independence have been gradual enough, incremental enough, to not draw violent retaliation from any of their neighbors. This will probably not draw intervention either, but Baghdad is trying to hint at it anyway.
"Yeah, probably."
Quaere then: Do you figure this particular probable idiocy to be probably inherent or acquired? (Or both?)
TrumpTweets: Yea for NASCAR; boo for the NFL.
Got North Korea working steadily at a workable thermonuclear ICBM, possible governmental shutdown looming after Christmas, and Shorthands busy is fighting for the Klan's right to keep ‘those people’ in their place.
It looks like North Korea is reading a declaration of war into Trump's tweets. I am starting to wonder if the leadership in North Korea isn't a little bonkers also.
Today is independence referendum day in Iraq Kurdistan. Polls open in just over two hours.
I have to assume the result will be "yes", which is why Baghdad is getting nervous.
Shorthands and Little Un appear to be trying to out-crazy each other. Somebody could make a mistake and get shooting started.
Pete: "I don't disagree with you but, funny enough, I'm hearing more than a few people saying that the new Leaf might be their opportunity to buy a second hand first generation one cheaply. That says two things to me: 1) new EV sales are still the domain of wealthy econuts and eccentrics; even with generous subsidies the average person is not yet thinking their next car has to be an EV."
This is anecdotal evidence of the highest order but I think there's been a shift recently, and I hear many more people than before singing the praise of electric cars and saying precisely that "my next car... EV".
Pete: "2) price and reliability drives pretty much everything; people are looking at the battery life and maintenance costs of first gen EVs and seeing that they have exceeded expectations; a sub-€10k second hand car with low road taxes, free charging, and the prospect of another 100,000 km of trouble free driving is quite attractive. But it is still a tiny niche."
It is still a niche. But I think more and more people are starting to realize that they are a viable option. The range and the price were the biggest drawbacks before. Even if 9 times out of 10, or even 49 times out of 50, you could get by on one battery charge it's that one time when you do need to go far that puts you off an EV.
Better batteries, faster charging, charging in so many more places and more of those Tesla supercharge stations (not sure if other EV:s can maybe pay to get charged there, Tesla owners get it for free I'm told). The biggest drawback is fast becoming much less significant.
Also on price there's rapid progress. It's really about the battery-pack as an EV excluding the battery should be much cheaper than a ICE-car. The next Tesla Model 3 is rumored to cost about half of what the last one did which will put it within range for so many more consumers.
BTW, it might sound like I'm praising Tesla a whole lot here. While it was a great driving experience, the cars are really cool, and they lead development of EV:s right now, I'm not at all sure they will succeed, and I would never buy Tesla-stocks at these prices.
I figure it's easier for the big car companies like BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Toyota, etc to learn what Tesla has learned than it will be for Tesla to ramp up production and efficiency to the levels of the "dragons" of the car industry. The tech behind an EV is really not that complicated. So Tesla may well be acting ice breaker in the market place for others who will soon overtake it easily in terms of volume.
Then Tesla might be left with a cool brand name and a market as an expensive sportscar for the image concerned.
Lynnette: "So, are you looking to buy, Marcus?"
I just last year bought a new Nissan Quashqai diesel and I plan to drive it for about 9 more years. I am not that into cars as such, for me they're just a necessary tool. So I'm looking for reasonable comfort and a decent design and low running costs (fuel, tax, insurance).
For quality I would have gone with another Toyota Rav4 but that would have set me back about twice what I paid for the Nissan, and I just am not interested enough in cars to pay that much.
I also happened across a great deal. A couple had bought the car, driven it for about 3000 miles in 3 months and then gotten a divorce and handed it back to the dealership. I happened across it and got a just broken in car that had cost 250K for 190K ($23.600).
So maybe my next vehicle will be an EV but not for several years yet. That will also let me know if EV:s are really going to take off and become the new thing in personal transportation, or not.
I wonder why I've not seen any electric motorcycles on the market yet? (I did see one home built one that was being used as a drag racer--essentially a giant power drill on two in-line wheels, no transmission or like that, just motor and wheels and seat and handlebars.)
TrumpTweets: Shorthands has decided to open another day with his ongoing fight with the NFL. He thinks he's got an issue that'll fire up his base and distract from his lack of progress on real issues. He may well be correct.
Lee:
"I wonder why I've not seen any electric motorcycles on the market yet?"
Electric bicykles are getting really popular here. They look like a regular bike and you pedal them like a regular bike but there's a battery pack and an electric hepler motor on them. I haven't tried one but I hear it kinda feels like you always have the wind in your back, or like going downhill all the time.
https://www.google.se/search?q=elcykel&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAyN7o98LWAhWSmbQKHavEBqgQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=662
Then in many places (that I have been/seen) in the US the infrastructure and distances might not suit bicykles. Here people use them all over. I have a decent one but I don't use it all that often and have no plans for an electric one.
Pete: "I reckon my typical shopping time including 10 minutes each way to the supermarket was well over two hours."
I have to wonder what on earth you were doing in the store for well over 1:40 hours?!?
Pete: "I've only tried one retailer's online system but I've never looked back.[...] I'm probably starting to sound like an ad for online shopping ... but it's insanely great. I'd really never consider anything else again."
That sounds pretty good actually. But where I'm not sold yet is on ssome specific items that I might want to look at before buying. If I hant a couple of Entrecótes for a BBQ I really do want to check them out before purchasing them, as that is one piece of meat that can vary greatly in quality. Also the delicatessy-counter - one Parma ham is not like another Parma ham. Stufff like that. Some veggies like bell peppers I might include here.
Do you feel you can get those sort of products at a quality you're fine with in your online shopping, or do you purchase that stuff elsewhere?
Lee: "By the way, I did notice that the nearest local high-end grocery store [...] they've put up two vehicle battery charging stations in preferred parking places at their local store [...] Happened in just the last few months."
Same here, they're popping up just about everywhere. I think our local IKEA has at least 20 of them. Free of charge too, in all places, so far.
That's one reason I've gotten more interested in the EV:s, I can see the whole infrastructure that would be needed actually materializing.
So my main question now is wether EV:s, or rather EV-batteries, can be scaled up on a global car fleet level. Seen some interesting comments in this thread on the topic, but no definitive answer yet (which is probably wise as there probably isn't a definitive answer yet to be had).
Produce (fresh fruits and veggies) vary as much as meats.
And, yeah, no guarantees I know of that the current lithium-ion type batteries can be supplied at levels that would be necessary to sustain replacement of internal combustion engines with electrics world-wide.
More TrumpTweets re: The NFL: This time he wants a new NFL rule requiring players to stand at attention during the playing of the national anthem. (He does think he's got himself a winner here.)
Don't they first have to pass a rule requiring the NFL to actually play the national anthem? (And is everybody here aware that The Star Spangled Banner has a little use third stanza that discusses the grim retributions to be inflicted on runaway slaves?)
Me: "I myself think battary swap…will be…for trucks, not cars."
Lee: "That seems not unreasonable."
I saw Tesla (again with Tesla - I know!) are going to present some sort of electric truck soon.
And, being familiar with trucks, you have both whole sides of the chassis, betweeen the wheels to work with here. Where the diesel tank sits today and all them boxes for straps and tools and stuff. You could probably pack in about 2-3 cubic meters of batteries there. And they could be easily accessible "boxes" that could be swapped for fully charged "boxes" at swapping stations.
There are weight issues and the frame of the chassis would likely need to be strengthened and with added battery weight compared to the previous weight of the full diesel tank the load you could carry leagally would diminish equally. But it seems doable.
That said. I think that EV:s are MUCH better suited in the personal transport sector, as trucks typically run 8+ hours a day and for long distances.
So I think cars, but NOT with swappable battery-packages but with an inbuilt battery (you'll have to swap it when it's lifespan has run out but that's another question). Then you're left with the drawback of range and a need to re-charge, but as I said before that drawback is getting smaller and smaller both through better batterytech and better charging facilities.
Lee: "And, yeah, no guarantees I know of that the current lithium-ion type batteries can be supplied at levels that would be necessary to sustain replacement of internal combustion engines with electrics world-wide."
On the other hand we might not have to look at replacing the whole car fleet. A 20-30% switch to electric cars for them that usually only drive short distances in and near cities might still be enough to call EV:s a roaring success. Should help with air pollution in dene city centres if nothing else.
But THEN we'd also need an assessment of the environmental impacts of all them Lithium-ion batteries. How much energy is required, from mine to installment in a car, to produce them? Is there hazardous waste in the process? Can they be recycled? (I'm told they can, but not from a source I deem reliable), etc. There are many questions.
Tesla brags on its ‘closed loop’ recycling system. Yeah, Tesla again.
Lee: "And, yeah, no guarantees I know of that the current lithium-ion type batteries can be supplied at levels that would be necessary to sustain replacement of internal combustion engines with electrics world-wide."
I actually have one collegue who thinks that EV:s are a dead end and point to how Bio-diesel and Ethanol were all the rage back when and in the end never worked out. His solution is a hydrogen-transport economy, seeing as all you need to make Hydrogen is water and electricity. Water we have in abundance and electtricity can be gained from a multitude of sources, many re-newable.
The downsides with Hydrogen is it's extremely flammable, much more so than gasoline, so there's a danger sapect there. And it's not as dense in energy as gasoline so you have to re-fuel more often.
Still, I kinda listen to this guy as he's a nuclear engineer and very, very far from dumb.
Hydrogen leaks, from damn near everything.
Yup. Hydrogen is a problematic fuel to use. But it might be a less problematic fuel to attain.
It seems to me there are no easy answers. So it'd be prudent not to rule any option out until they have been tested.
Ethanol, which I remember our Canuck friend John praised way back when in spite of me tellin' that poor soul he was wrong on yet another matter, is dead today. There will never be and could never be an Ethanol fuel market for transports. Yet it was tried due to subsidies - cause politicians are bought and/or stupid.
Bio-diesel: it was more or less the same idea but slightly more feasible. Until algea began to grow in the tanks of trucks that stood idle for more than a few days. Today that idea is dead (and it required us growing crops for transports, thus replacing crops for food, so it was always a dead end)
Hydrogen IS a possibility though. If we can create such an engine system. That's an IF, mind you, I'm still hopin' here that maybe EV:s can become a solution.
Yeah, hydrogen looks like the perfect fuel until you delve into it. Producing hydrogen by electrolysis of water involves quite a lot of losses, even though it sounds like a good solution for "stranded wind" and other renewables. Storage is a pain -- it not only leaks easily as Lee says, but intercalates into metals and embrittles them. And fuel cells still suffer from electrode poisoning over time. Perhaps all those problems can be solved ... but we've been trying for a long time, and I tend to treat all energy solutions that require major technological breakthroughs as "probably not going to happen any time soon". I've had a book about the imminent arrival of the hydrogen economy on my shelf for fifteen years ;-)
"Until algea began to grow in the tanks of trucks that stood idle for
more than a few days."
That's a myth, and a false myth at that.
Algae cannot grow without sunlight. If you're getting sunlight into your diesel tanks you've got a bigger problem than algae growing in it. (Microbes grow in almost all petroleum based fuel tanks if water is allowed to gather in the bottom of the tank--I remember seeing a PBS special on air transportation that mentioned how they had to clean the bottoms of their storage tanks between fuelings. The microbes live in the water but feed off the chemicals in the fuel.)
Ethanol should be dead, but the US farm lobby keeps it going. (Same in Europe but to a smaller extent). The energy return on ethanol from fermentation is just not there. Much of it is embodied in the fertilisers used in growing crops and distillation or evaporation at the end of the process. An easy rule of thumb is that anything that produces a fuel in low concentration aqueous solution is probably a non-runner.
I've always fancied methanol as a fuel but it has partly been stymied by the ethanol industry. The distribution infrastructure (and the associated problems) are much the same as for ethanol. It can be produced by pyrolysis of biomass. But mainly it can be produced from natural gas. Yeah, so it's still a fossil fuel. But at least it's a way of using cleaner, more abundant (and currently much cheaper) fuels for transport. Densifying energy for transport applications is still the basic problem to be solved no matter what technology you are looking at. Mother Nature did it for us with oil.
Haven't seen any official news, but I gather the Kurdish vote supported independence by >90% with a >70% turnout. That's a pretty strong mandate. So now the fun begins. I hear already that Turkey has threatened to shut down the Kirkuk to Ceyhan pipeline. One of the reasons why Brent crude hit a two year high, nudging $60.
Post Script:
The myth about bio-diesel may have gotten started because it tends to have a "detergent" effect on engines and systems which have accumulated crud while running petro-diesel. They can break the crud loose and it winds up in the filters in annoying amounts, i.e. frequent replacement of the filters sometimes even clogs lines.
"... the latest brouhaha over NFL players taking a knee to protest
race relations in America"
"What a bunch of idiots! :("
Petes @ Sun Sep 24, 05:51:00 pm
"You figure them being idiots is what accounts for the fact that black
guys are six times more likely to get shot after a traffic stop than white
guys?"
Lee C @ Sun Sep 24, 06:01:00 pm
"Yeah, probably."
Petes @ Sun Sep 24, 06:06:00 pm
"Quaere then: Do you figure this particular probable idiocy to be
probably inherent or acquired? (Or both?)"
Lee C. @ Mon Sep 25, 09:04:00 am
Question's still pending Petes. You figure black folks to be getting themselves killed by cops at a six to one ratio over white people on account of an inherited idiocy, or is it an acquired idiocy in your view? (Or maybe some combination of the two?)
(I should have mentioned that there is some viable bioethanol. Brazilian cane ethanol works because of tropical sunlight, cheap manual labour, and the use of otherwise unused byproducts from the sugar industry. American corn ethanol is not in that league, although ethanol proponents sometimes pretend there is a connection).
"Question's still pending Petes."
LOL. I was wondering how long it would take you to figger out my answer at Sun Sep 24, 06:06:00 pm was for no other reason than to ruffle yer feathers in response to the entirely stoopid question y'all asked. Seems y'all weren't gonna figger it out at all.
And yes, they're still idiots.
Well, Lee, I have actually been present when we draggged slobs of what looked like algea from a 20 M3 diesel-tank where we did a trial with bio diesel. In that case it was regular diesel fuel mixed with rapeseed oil some way or another - I don't know the ratios
Gunk actually grew in our tanks. Gunk grew in the tanks of trucks. Not sure if it was aleag but gunk grew. And the cleanup before we could get back to proper diesel was quite costly.
I sorta feel like this is my thread since I asked for it so the whole NFL and race thingy...well, you brought it on.
Lee: "Quaere then: Do you figure this particular probable idiocy to be probably inherent or acquired? (Or both?)"
NB4 Pete: well you know MY theory on that, right? ;-)
All in all I would say that mouthing off to cops, running from cops, flailing at cops, refusing to stop your vehicle when cops' say so, etc. all increase your chance off gettin' shot by a cop. That's idiotic.
And if we're talkin' 'bout people gettin' shot in the USA and race, then why not look at who's doin' most of the shooting as a whole, and not just look at cops. See how that comes out.
Also, kneeling for your national anthem is silly and it's the players doing that and the teams allowing for it who brought politics into sports first.
Then on the other hand it's also silly as hell for a president to comment on such things and a quite obvious attempt to stir up debate and strife to cover for... something else.
"20 M3" checks out as a marine application, which suggests water may have gotten in there too. Mixing water with rapeseed oil and commercial petro-diesel (with its additives), you may have had a chemical reaction of some sort happen there rather than a microbial growth. But, if it was microbial growth is was almost certainly spawned in the water.
That said, blacks gettin' themselves shot by the poooolice is prolly them's own gawd damned fault, for the most part.
Playing the national anthem at sports events is what brought politics into sports in the first place. If the League is going to force political demonstrations on the players we should not react with surprise if they turn out to have their own political axes to grind.
"…blacks gettin' themselves shot by the poooolice is prolly them's
own gawd damned fault, for the most part."
I do believe you've found something you and Petes can agree upon.
If you were to start a small business Lee and you needed 4 reliable employees, would you ever choose 4 african americans beefore four eurasian americans?
Answer for real and not based on ideology...
"And if we're talkin' 'bout people gettin' shot in the USA and race,
then why not look at who's doin' most of the shooting…"
You'll find that white folks usually get shot by white folks, and black folks usually get shot by black folks. (There's an explanation for this, but that's another subject and it'll wait for another day.)
Except when we're talking about folks getting shot by the police. Police tend to shoot black folks in situations where they'd not shoot white folks. (Even happens in training sessions where they shoot at pop-up images; been documented.)
"If you were to start a small business Lee and you needed 4
reliable employees…"
I've had small businesses before. I started one, bought one. I had no preference based on race. I found no race-based distinction in employees' reliability.
"I was wondering how long…"
More bluntly stated: You now disavow your prior statement, and now claim to have not meant it when you said it. (And it took you a full day to come up with that explanation.)
And, yeah, no guarantees I know of that the current lithium-ion type batteries can be supplied at levels that would be necessary to sustain replacement of internal combustion engines with electrics world-wide.
What if there were a way to recharge a battery while driving? When I was trolling for videos for the post I happened upon one that purported to have a way of switching power between two batteries. One could be running the car while the other was recharging, using solar power. When one battery was depleted the other fully charged battery was then switched on.
I know someone, maybe Petes, was questioning the use of solar in areas where the sun doesn't shine for great lengths of time, but I have noticed that my solar lawn lights recharge just fine on cloudy days. Of course, those are very small batteries.
Farmers markets. They are big here. Is that something that is common in Sweden or Ireland? Or has big box retail completely taken over local shops?
Then on the other hand it's also silly as hell for a president to comment on such things and a quite obvious attempt to stir up debate and strife to cover for... something else.
Very true.
In all honestly I was never sure why the original protesting players chose to use taking a knee as a form of protest when the anthem was played. It seems more deferential rather than an act of protest.
But anyway, now that the president has weighed in we have more of a freedom of speech issue going on, which is something that could drag in more people who have been sitting on the sidelines of this issue.
"It seems more deferential rather than an act of protest."
It is clearly not disruptive. It does not compete for the attention of people who wish to do the whole ‘hands over hearts and stare vacantly at the flag’ thing.
Well, ready or not, it appears that some countries are going to eliminate new gas cars altogether in favor of EV's.
It seems that the IRS is sharing information with Robert Mueller.
Alabama: Steve Bannon/Breitbart candidate, Roy Moore, has soundly whipped the Trump/McConnell candidate, Luther Strange. Moore campaigned on a promise to save Trump from himself, i.e. to keep Trump from going over to the ‘establishment’ side of the Republican Party. (Never mind those deals with ‘Chuck and Nancy’.)
"…the IRS is sharing information…"
Mueller seems to be plugging quietly along, mostly quietly anyway. Not too many leaks from his operation.
James Dyson, head of the company which makes the Dyson vacuum cleaners, has announced his intention to take his company into the electric car business. They're supposedly going to have production models hitting the streets by 2020.
The Tesla Truck is currently scheduled to be unveiled for sale, for real, on 26 October 2017.
Lynnette: "What if there were a way to recharge a battery while driving? When I was trolling for videos for the post I happened upon one that purported to have a way of switching power between two batteries. One could be running the car while the other was recharging, using solar power. When one battery was depleted the other fully charged battery was then switched on."
I don't even think you'd necessarily need two batteries for that. You could just use the current from the solar panels directly to the electric motors to make the draw on the battery slightly less.
The thing is those solar panels can't charge a battery at the nsame rate driving a car depletes the battery. It it was so we could do away with the battery all together and just drive on the solar panels (during daytime).
But in reality solar panels on top of a car is probably a non-starter as it is way too small an area to capture solar energy for it to really matter much.
Lee: "James Dyson, head of the company which makes the Dyson vacuum cleaners, has announced his intention to take his company into the electric car business. They're supposedly going to have production models hitting the streets by 2020."
I read that Volvo has pledged to do away with diesels before 2020 (on acccount of new NOX regulation in the EU) and from 2023 they will not be making cars that are "only fossil", meaning EV:s or hybrids only from then on.
And ABB a Swedish/Swiss industrial conglomerate just recently said they were going full on into the battery business.
So for sure there are major coorperations taking this whole thing seriously and putting some serious investment into it.
Lynnette: "Farmers markets. They are big here. Is that something that is common in Sweden or Ireland? Or has big box retail completely taken over local shops?"
We don't really have farmers markets in that sense here. Yet at least - I think there might could be a market for those markets if someone took the initiative to organize them.
But we do have individual farms where you can go and get locally produced stuff. Normally at the still family owned farms.
Lynnette: "Well, ready or not, it appears that some countries are going to eliminate new gas cars altogether in favor of EV's."
Can't say much about the rest but Norway is for real when it comes to EV:s. Complete tax break for an EV and free parking and free passage on their many toll roads. And they have some INSANELY high taxes on other cars so the tax break really means a lot.
I go there almost every year and can attest to the fact that they have a significant part of their car fleet electric.
Of course Norway is one of the (if not THE) richest countries in the world so they have the option to throw money at a percieved problem that most other countries might not have.
Lee: "Playing the national anthem at sports events is what brought politics into sports in the first place. If the League is going to force political demonstrations on the players we should not react with surprise if they turn out to have their own political axes to grind."
Maybe so, and they'll keep it up to their own detriment. I'm not sure if you're a sportsfan yourself but I can guess that a clear majority of say NFL fans happen to dislike the spectacle these players get upto, and in the end they're only shooting themselves in the foot for no good reason.
And even if it's not a "clear majority" then even something like 25% of fans saying: "Fuck it, I'm not gonna support a sport where these coddled balltossers on multi-million contracts disrespect my flag and my nation!" that WILL have an impact. Just you wait and see.
"…I can guess that a clear majority of say NFL fans happen to
dislike the spectacle these players get upto…"
That seems to be correct.
However, the usual point of making a public protest is to discomfort the clear majority who'd rather ignore the problem, at least in the beginning. Later, when the protesters have the majority, the purpose will shift to forcing the government to actually implement the desired changes. But, the first public protests, which would cover these NFL protests, are almost always intended to discomfort the clear majority. That's the purpose of the protest; that's the point.
I would add the note that Shorthands has been tweeting that the NFL must now mandate that all players stand at attention during the playing of the national anthem.
However, that skips a step. First we have to mandate the playing of the national anthem at the opening of all NFL football games. (I mentioned this little problem earlier.)
I think that move will give a fair number of the dedicated Trumpkins pause. (They aren't used to thinking their positions through, but this is only a two-step process, so they'll likely be able to manage it.)
"…these coddled balltossers on multi-million contracts disrespect
my flag and my nation!“
The thing is, the coddled balltossers have figured out a mode of protest that is neither disruptive nor disrespectful. The angry old white folks who want to get pissed about it will have to maintain their anger almost all by themselves. Usually they don't want to go to that much trouble. They want somebody else to lead the chant; they want to play response on the call and response.
My guess is they'll learn quick ‘nuff that they can ignore that black dude takin’ a knee if they want to watch their games.
I may be wrong, but I don't think Shorthands can keep this one up ‘cause he's calling on his dedicated Trumpkins to actually do something themselves, and to actually give up something they like. They're not much on making sacrifices; they just aren't.
Might observe also: Angry old white folks aren't exactly the preferred target demographic for the advertisers who help finance pro football. Neither do they fill stadiums.
I mentioned before that there was no pro football team in Alabama. Ain't one in West Virginia either. And the pro football team in Dallas, Texas has a Democrat for its Mayor. (Turns out they just don't put football stadiums out there in the rural hinterlands that make up Shorthands' natural political environment. They put football stadiums in cities generally, and that's usually Democrat country, even in Texas.)
Shorthands is going to do some damage to the owners' bottom lines; there's no gettin’ ‘round that. However, buckling under to him on this will likely hurt their bottom lines even more. So, they're gonna be pissed at him. He's done them damage they cannot now avoid even by buckling under and doing what he wants. These guys were contributors. Now he's done them unnecessary damage. They will remember this; they're gonna think he should have gone after somebody else.
Blahdibla!
As I said: you just wait and see.
Initially you said that:
"…that WILL have an impact. Just you wait and see."
Well, of course it will. Shorthands wouldn't have chosen this ground to fight on unless he expected it to invigorate his base, and he knows his base; it will invigorate them and get them to forget his recent dalliance with ‘Chuck and Nancy’ and his failure to provide any leadership on the ‘repeal and replace’ question, and generally it will cause the dedicated Trumpkins to briefly forget all manner of recent sins and failures from Shorthands. That will be an impact. I agreed with that already part already. And it will cost his NFL owner friends money; that will be an impact too. And I agreed with that already.
Ah, but, "What other impact might it have beyond the obvious?" is the question to be answered. ‘Cause those weren't the impacts you were thinking about. In fact, you seem to have entirely skipped thinking this thing through. I wonder if you even know what you expect to happen.
The thing is those solar panels can't charge a battery at the nsame rate driving a car depletes the battery. It it was so we could do away with the battery all together and just drive on the solar panels (during daytime).
Thus, two batteries. One can be charging while the other powers the car. Or, it can be charging when the car is not moving(unless it's in the garage).
It appears that Trump is now going to try to fix healthcare all by himself via Executive Order.
"…via Executive Order."
He seems to think he's going to outlaw state insurance regulations by decree. I don't think he's got the jurisdiction for that one. Perhaps we'll find out.
Lynnette, something I notice about the EV hype is that people seem reluctant to do some basic sums. There literally is not enough sunlight in the British Isles to power its car fleet in winter. The amount of energy in gasoline is mind-boggling. Even allowing for more efficient electric motors, the energy used in gasoline outstrips all of the electricity we generate.
A fully charged 75 kWh battery in a high-end EV contains the energy equivalent of only two gallons of gasoline. Even at that, you would never charge it from a solar panel on the car itself. Solar irradiance is at best a little over a kW per square metre, and a solar panel can convert about 20% of that. At 0.2 kW your EV battery would take 75 / 0.2 = 375 hours to charge... more than two weeks! The solar cells on your garden lamps are about a thousand times more puny than that again.
Those stories going around about countries about to ditch petrol and diesel in favour of EVs ... those are hogwash. It will be impossible to generate enough electricity any time soon. Norway is the biggest virtue-signalling greenie of them all ... so why is its gasoline consumption going up? ;-)
"Farmers markets. They are big here. Is that something that is common in Sweden or Ireland? Or has big box retail completely taken over local shops?"
Depends what you mean by farmers' markets. Yeah, we have lots. They are just commercial vendors cashing in on people wanting to "get closer to nature". Mostly the stuff comes from the same place as the stuff on the supermarket shelves. Except you have less choice and it's more expensive.
We do seem to have have more packaging than other countries. My brother's local supermarket in Belgium looks like the ones here did thirty years ago -- lots of loose, ungraded, unwashed vegetables. Here the supermarkets are obsessive about having every vegetable perfectly shaped, clean, graded and prepacked. So much so, in fact, that they now have surpluses of "wonky" vegetables which they sell at a discount. (Yes, "wonky" seems to be the actual industry term). I see in the UK that has spawned another whole virtue-signalling market.
I see that Shorthands has done an interview with Fox and Friends during which he said that the NFL owners were afraid of their players (large black dudes there).
Shorthands isn't usually very empathetic towards anybody not in his dedicated Trumpkin base, and so I have to conclude that the real problem he has here is that the NFL owners are simply not afraid of him.
@ Lynnette,
It has seemed to me that Nixon and Kissinger have gotten off easy these last few nights in The Vietnam War series. It's not that they don't point out the duplicity of that pair, but they seemed rather matter-of-fact about it, where they had adopted what I thought was a more self-righteous ‘tone’ for the dissembling of the Johnson administration. (Almost as if they were taking the position that, ‘It was Nixon, what else ya expect?’)
Did it seem that way to you, or was it maybe just me?
Lee: "In fact, you seem to have entirely skipped thinking this thing through. I wonder if you even know what you expect to happen."
I expect that them balltossers will be told to stand and salute the flag by their employers once those employers get the real life economic impact of them balltossers' virtue signalling. And, given a choice between their cushy lifestyle tossin' balls and gettin' themselves a real job instead they will hop to and salute that flag. Trump will definetly win this one, even if it's a petty win that is just for show.
So yeah, I know what I expect will happen. The question here is - do you?
Lynnette: "Thus, two batteries. One can be charging while the other powers the car."
Why two though? You can just as well charge the one battery that is powering the car at any given moment.
You do know that you can charge your iPhone (or whatever phone) the same time as you're using it, right?
So why two separate batteries? I don't see any upside to that at all.
I expect that the Players' Union will prevent the imposition of a ‘hop to and salute’ edict from the NFL or from any individual owners. I expect that'll be upheld in court if the NFL or any individual owner tries to take it that far.
Given that limitation, I expect the NFL and the individual owners to find a way to defy Trump on this one. I notice that three of the teams refused to take the field until after the playing of the national anthem. That may become the league's favored response. But most likely they'll get around to just letting their players come out on the field and then either stand at attention, or take a knee (and take the boos) as the spirit moves them. Could be some players won't come out until after the anthem, but I don't look for much of that to happen, it'll either be team wide or let each player make his own move as the spirit moves him. Trump and his Alabama white boys be damned.
Pete: "Those stories going around about countries about to ditch petrol and diesel in favour of EVs ... those are hogwash. It will be impossible to generate enough electricity any time soon. Norway is the biggest virtue-signalling greenie of them all ... so why is its gasoline consumption going up? ;-)"
Agree. Most people don't get that, as you say, the energy in a liter of gasoline is awesome! It is not easy to replace.
Sweden is one of the very most ideal places on earth to garner "green electricity" given that we have such a huge water-electricity capability /population here. Most places however do not have hydro-power to that extent.
So that's another VERY important side of the EV revolution to consider: from what sources do we get all that electricity to offset the fossil fuels in our previous car fleet?
Nuclear is in bad taste these days, but realistically it might be the only long running option.
Lee: "Given that limitation, I expect the NFL and the individual owners to find a way to defy Trump on this one. I notice that three of the teams refused to take the field until after the playing of the national anthem. That may become the league's favored response. But most likely they'll get around to just letting their players come out on the field and then either stand at attention, or take a knee (and take the boos) as the spirit moves them. Could be some players won't come out until after the anthem, but I don't look for much of that to happen, it'll either be team wide or let each player make his own move as the spirit moves him. Trump and his Alabama white boys be damned."
Nope. Trump will win this one (to no benefit for himself). In the end it always comes down to the $. The NFL fanbase is about 80% white and as such at least 40% Trump, maybe close to 60%. Even if only a quarter of those decide to "vote with their feet" it's a 10-15% loss in revenue, and that's a VERY conservative figure. The league can't withstand that, certainly not in the name of virtue signalling.
Pissing off your fanbase, pissing off your core consumers, is ALWAYS a really bad idea. For any coorporation. The NFL will fold. The players will hop to and salute that flag. Those who refuse will be cut.
We'll just have to wait and see. I don't think the NFL will even try to comply with Trump's demand, but we'll just have to wait and see. Won't have to wait long though, they'll come to a collective decision within a couple of weeks I reckon.
Post Script:
Might simply quit playing the national anthem, maybe switch to America the Beautiful or Battle Hymn of the Republic or something (more likely to be America the Beautiful than any other I can think of). I'd count that as defying Trump on this one.
Lee: "Might simply quit playing the national anthem, maybe switch to America the Beautiful or Battle Hymn of the Republic or something (more likely to be America the Beautiful than any other I can think of). I'd count that as defying Trump on this one."
Nope. That'd be constructing a way around Trumps' win on the matter at hand. A way to get out of a losing deal.
And, mind you, that MAY be the better deal for all involved.
Myself I find it ridicoulous and petty and demeaning for a President of the USA to even comment on such matters. Especially as the "kneelings" weren't aimed at him personally.
But now that Trump has taken a side and the ballossers foolishly took the other side, Trump will win.
The canary in the coal mine?
Roy Moore's victory in Alabama dominated the news on Wednesday. But, it was two far less high-profile races on Tuesday night -- one in Florida, one in New Hampshire -- that may well give us the best indication of where we are headed in the 2018 midterm elections.
In Florida, Democrat Annette Tadeo won a Republican-held state Senate district 51% to 47%. In New Hampshire, Democrat Kari Lerner beat a former Republican state representative to fill a state House district that Donald Trump won by 23 points last November.
Or wishful thinking?
MANY of their regular fanbase are gonna be like: I fought overseas myself or my cousuÃn fought in Iraq or my nephew fought in Afghanistan - and these fucking ball-tossers have the nerve to disrespect our nations flag?
WTF! OK, I'm gonna do te only thing lil' 'ol me can do and NOT support them fuckers from now on.
Plus all the people who didn't actuallt fight in wars but support the ones who did.
Lee: do you really think it's a winning proposition in the USA to disrespect the Flag or the NationalAnthem?
It is not. And it'll take a few months and the it will be shown - no more knweelings. I bet that.
" That'd be constructing a way around Trumps' win on the matter at hand."
Yep, that'd be a way to avoid complying with Trump's demands. In other words, a defiance of his demands. (I pointed out earlier that first they had to force the NFL to actually play the national anthem; you thought I was kidding maybe?)
"I find it ridicoulous and petty and demeaning for a President of the
USA to even comment on such matters."
But, this is Trump; that's who and what he is. That's what he's always gonna be.
"Or wishful thinking?"
Hard to say; state legislator races often turn on particularly local concerns.
A fully charged 75 kWh battery in a high-end EV contains the energy equivalent of only two gallons of gasoline.
That explains why gasoline was the fuel of choice. That, and the prevalence of oil.
Those stories going around about countries about to ditch petrol and diesel in favour of EVs ... those are hogwash.
Someone is in for a rude awakening then. :)
Perhaps the answer is hybrids.
Depends what you mean by farmers' markets. Yeah, we have lots. They are just commercial vendors cashing in on people wanting to "get closer to nature". Mostly the stuff comes from the same place as the stuff on the supermarket shelves. Except you have less choice and it's more expensive.
There may be some like that here too, but I know for sure that the one my cousin sells at is actually locally grown produce. But the state is busy regulating just about everything to do with what the produce, especially jam.
So much so, in fact, that they now have surpluses of "wonky" vegetables which they sell at a discount.
lol! Sometimes "wonky" are perfectly fine.
"A fully charged 75 kWh battery in a high-end EV contains the
energy equivalent of only two gallons of gasoline."
Try to get 200 miles on two gallons of gas in any car with performance capabilities equivalent to the Tesla.
Did it seem that way to you, or was it maybe just me?
I think what I have seen has been an effort to be as, perhaps I will use the word "clinical", as possible in this documentary. It is depicting any number of human failings that are things we may not want to face head on. I didn't get the impression that you did regarding Johnson and Nixon/Kissinger. I will say I was disappointed in Johnson, but Nixon really did embody the worst of us.
Obama kept the war in Afghanistan going for pretty much the same reasons. He didn't want to take responsibility for ‘losing’ in Afghanistan.
(He did not, however, try to pretend we were winning.)
CBS Evening News just reported that Russian trolls (and bots) are hitting social media sites with a flood of posts urging a boycott of the NFL. Maybe small wonder that Marcus is on that side also?
" I will say I was disappointed in Johnson, but Nixon really did
embody the worst of us."
That seems to track reasonably closely to what I was trying to describe. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. "Johnson was a disappointment; Nixon was what he was". Yeah, works as a description for what I was trying to describe.
Marcus,
I talked to the IT guy who owns the Tesla. He loves it. He had no problem driving from Minnesota down to Tennessee with it. The on board computer plans your route to hit the necessary charging stations. As we have mentioned earlier you don't need to fully charge the battery, just charge it enough to make it to the next charging station. He said in the time it took him to get a cup of coffee and drink it the car was charged enough.
You have a choice between two different batteries, with different capacities, 75KW or 100KW. He said that Tesla was thinking about recycling old batteries. I suppose kind of like you buy a used part, you can buy a used battery, which would be cheaper than a new one. The battery would not have as high a capacity as a new one, though.
Maybe small wonder that Marcus is on that side also?
Maybe small wonder that Trump is on that side also!
I came away from that Vietnam War documentary feeling like I just stepped off of a roller coaster. Emotion wise. It just left me feeling sad for everyone involved.
"Maybe small wonder that Trump is on that side also!"
In this particular case, it'd be more a matter of the Russians following up in support of Trump than the other way ‘round. Shorthands went on the offensive over the NFL ‘cause he needed to seize the headlines back and get those headlines away from his latest political failures (most notably his failure to contribute to ‘repeal and replace’ or to achieve any progress on The Wall during his dalliance with ‘Chuck and Nancy’.)
Health and Human Services Secretary, Tom Price, (previously a member of the House of Representatives from Georgia) has said he'll repay the taxpayers for the jaunts on private charter planes at taxpayer expense he's racked up since joining the Trump administration.
Those costs are estimated at half a million dollars so far ($500,000 +), with potential to rise as more costs are tabulated and accounted.
No explanation has been given regarding why he values his current job enough to cough up in excess of half a million dollars to try to keep it.
Thursday night football; Packers vs Bears:
Both teams decided to do the ‘lock arms’ thing; none of the players actually took a knee.
Shorthands has tried to claim that the ‘lock arms’ thing is a capitulation to his criticisms. He's tweeted that locking arms is fine. However, the written out 1942 standardization of civilian response was that civilians were supposed to put their right hand over their left breast (supposedly where the heart is located, but not really, and gawd only knows why they thought they had to dictate the civilian response, but they did). See, Melania's gentle and discrete subtle and oh so very respectful reminder to Trump
The Trumpkin fans didn't buy it. Trump can claim victory for this if he wants, but the dedicated Trumpkins ain't goin’ for it. Kinda like they didn't buy into his endorsement of Luther Strange.
Wow. The head of the Air Force Academy is on CNN talking about an incident at the academy involving racial slurs written on lockers there. He is giving a wonderful response, basically saying if that is what you believe then you don't belong here. He is also going even farther including the knee thing and Charlottesville.
"If you can't treat someone with dignity and respect, then you need to get out."
I felt he was speaking to more people than just those cadets.
Be still my heart. I want this guy for President!
I've figured out why Health and Human Services Secretary, Tom Price, thought it was worth it to ‘pay back’ the taxpayers for his luxury air travel in order to keep his job. (Fri Sep 29, 12:15:00 am ↑↑) He thought he was gonna pay back only about 5% of the costs and he'd get away with that.
Headlines say he's just resigned, so I guess that notion didn't work out for him.
Television ratings are out for the Thursday night game between the Giants and the Bears. Ratings were way up, dire warnings from Shorthands notwithstanding. LATimes-Sports
It was a competitive game; Bears won 27-21. Sometimes the Thursday night games aren't very exciting, but this was competitive right to the end.
Shorthands has found someone new to attack. TrumpTweets: He's going after the Mayor of San Juan, Puerto Rico, "and others in Puerto, Rico who are not able to get their workers to help". A whole string of ‘em.
He maybe should have stuck with ragging on the NFL, although, that was beginning to look like the sort of thing that could turn out every bit as bad for him as well as the NFL (they're not noticeably backing down, and having them continue to defy him would be bad for his image). He's looking to move on, but I gotta wonder if ragging on people who're starving and dehydrated is a good move--course there's lots of brown people among them so maybe it'll play better in Alabama.
I got that comma in the wrong spot, should be after ‘Rico’ and before ‘who’, but otherwise….
Yup, I woke up to Trump attacking the major of Puerto Rico. Remember when I said Nixon embodied the worst of us? Now it's a toss up.
At some point in time, if one is intelligent enough, one realizes that it isn't political correctness, but simple human compassion.
I suspect that when history judges, if we actually have a future for there to be a history, Trump will go down as the WORST PRESIDENT EVER. Just a wild guess on my part.
It may get worse. Shorthands has been tweeting last day or so about all the plaudits he's supposedly been getting from the Governor of Puerto Rico, one Ricardo Rossello, but Rossello said this morning that his previous conversations with Trump didn't square up with the President's tweets. Rossello didn't go into further detail, but that may be enough in and of itself to set Trump off again.
Al-Baghdadi, the supposed Da‘esh Caliph, has issued an audio tape that appears to make reference to recent events in Europe as well as the ongoing siege of Raqqa. NPR
Lynnette: "I suppose kind of like you buy a used part, you can buy a used battery, which would be cheaper than a new one. The battery would not have as high a capacity as a new one, though."
I don't think it's intended to work that way. The way I hear it is more like they break apart the battery, harvest the raw-materials and use them to build new batteries.
I've not heard of old batteries given some sort of "cleanup" and sold in the second hand market.
Of course you could be right and there might be such plans, or speculations about such plans, but I've not heard of them.
Lee: "Russian trolls (and bots) are hitting social media sites with a flood of posts urging a boycott of the NFL. Maybe small wonder that Marcus is on that side also?"
Gots to keep 'em Roobels Putin's personally puttin' in my bank account everytime I make a rightwang comment flowin'. Gots to get paid up in dis muttafukka. Canst ya jive wit dat or cants ya?
"Gots to keep 'em Roobels…"
You're not gettin’ any rubles; you're a freebie.
Fool, I's bin gettin' all 'em Roobles fur shore. Cracka all up in here takin' dat shit aint know shit 'bout shit. I's been gettin' Roobles nuff to buy ALL that bling, fool.
You're not getting any rubles; you're for free.
I's bin gettin' all em' Roobles, ALL that bling, fool. Putins' my main man. I's gettin' wide screens an' fresh Nikes an evrythang up in this muttafukka, I´s be lika kangs and shiet up in here. Bet that fool!
Nope, no rubles for Marcus.
'Ol stupid cracka caint see how Putin's my main man and gots myownselfs back and gibs em them Roobles fur shore. Myownself gets gibs and Putin's my main man fur them gibs. Cracka' just caint jive wit it. Stoopid ol' cracka!
Al-Baghdadi, the supposed Da‘esh Caliph, has issued an audio tape that appears to make reference to recent events in Europe as well as the ongoing siege of Raqqa. NPR
I haven't seen much on this, although I had heard about it. I guess most of the media is too busy following something else. Betcha Al-Baghdadi never thought he'd be upstaged by a US president's tweets.
I don't think it's intended to work that way. The way I hear it is more like they break apart the battery, harvest the raw-materials and use them to build new batteries.
You could be right, I could have misunderstood him, or he could be wrong. Although, he said he could talk on this subject forever. He is very much a Tesla fan.
Hmm...I'm going to a movie tomorrow. I may do a post on it. I think it still has relevancy today. lol!
No rubles for Marcus.
What you guys are referring to as ‘the battery’ is actually better called a ‘battery pack’. A battery pack (a battery) is made up of several thousands of individual cells (eight to ten thousand, depending on the model), each of which would be recognizable as a near equivalent to a AA lithium-ion battery, all packed into ‘modules’, usually sixteen of those to a battery pack.
Obviously, battery packs can be either recycled in whole, by being stripped down to constituent materials and made into new batteries, OR, they can be checked as individual cells, and the worst of them stripped down to material level, while still usable cells could be repacked and rewired into ‘used’ batteries.
It's not just one or the other that's possible.
What you guys are referring to as ‘the battery’ is actually better called a ‘battery pack’.
Yes, you're right. Now that you mention it that was actually covered in one of the videos in the post. Huh! It's getting bad when I can't remember my own post. lol!
I'm going to see "Battle of the Sexes" today. The movie about Billie Jean King and the tennis match with Bobbie Riggs. It's gotten good reviews.
I watched the opening of the Tampa Bay vs New Orleans football game being played in London. The players seemed to have various ways of expressing their views, although I didn't see any kneeling. But that doesn't mean that wasn't there. Most seemed to be standing, some with their hands over their hearts as normal, but others did both hand over heart and linking arms with teammates. Then there were those who linked arms and prayed or just stood and covered their faces.
Personally, I rather liked the idea of linked arms with hands over their hearts. It showed respect for those who have served, yet expressed their desire for a more unified, inclusive country. Nice.
Tampa Bay had three players kneel during the anthem. Fox decided to not show that (defiance of Shorthands is not approved at Fox).
Wait, those are Dolphins colors--Miami, not Tampa Bay.
Shorthands took to Twitter to tell Rex Tillerson to not bother trying to negotiate with Kim Jung Un. TrumpTweets Do these people not talk to one another in the real world?
Shorthands isn't tweeting about the NFL today. This may turn out to be one of his rare retreats.
I think he was busy at one of his golf courses.
May well be. Maybe he'll catch up with the NFL tomorrow.
Two attacks today, possibly related to Daesh.
Two women were killed in France.
And five hurt in an attack in Canada.
20 dead and over 100 injured in an attack in Las Vegas, Nevada. CBSNews
Hwite Christian terrist
What are we gonna do about angry old boomers?
Make that 50 dead and over 200 injured. And still counting.
Thanks heavens that guns don't kill people :-/
The sheer inevitability of it all is so depressing. When's someone gonna think to ask what bad people without guns would be able to do?
And on a more mundane note, this is on the same day that one of Britain's biggest charter airlines went bust due to the downturn in traffic to Turkey and North Africa after terrorist shootings. What's this gonna do for Nevada tourism? I've been on that piece of the Las Vegas strip several times myself. I generally assign a near-zero probability of being caught up in something like this, but other people might be more freaked.
And, quick catchup between study assignments...
"Try to get 200 miles on two gallons of gas in any car with performance capabilities equivalent to the Tesla."
Why? Who needs the performance of a Tesla? By my calculation you'd be breaking the speed limit in my local area after 1.2 seconds of acceleration in the Roadster. But more to the point is the total fuel-to-wheels efficiency of fossil fuel powered electricity. Coal fired plants get 33% efficiency, while even the best combined cycle gas turbine is barely over 50%. That's before you throw away another 10% or so on transmission losses. Suddenly you are looking at the equivalent of five or six gallons of gas to do those 200 miles. My diesel car does considerably better than that and it's far from the most efficient.
Oh, btw, apparently we're having the tail end of Hurricane Maria today, nearly two weeks since it made landfall in the Carribean. You found any of those experts to support yore case yet?
"My diesel car does considerably…"
Even your diesel car won't do the 100 mpg necessary to make your comparison work. My point was that comparing the energy theoretically available from fossil fuels to the energy actually available to battery powered automobiles was a fraudulent comparison. You knew that when you made the comparison. You were intentionally trying to mislead people. I believe probably everybody has figured that much out now. (If not, this last broad hint ought to catch ‘em up fully.)
Just a quick comment.
They are now saying 50 dead and 400 injured in the shooting in Vegas.
As someone said earlier, a 64 year old man was the shooter. Sounds like he was a regular at the casinos. No motive yet.
"You found any of those experts to support yore case yet?"
Haven't been looking. Ain't gonna start looking. I don't need experts. I have your admission; that's quite enough.
Post Script:
"I have your admission; that's quite enough."
I would have thought you'd have figured that one out by now. I assure you, everybody else has.
"No motive yet."
He apparently had his end game figured out though. He had at least one wireless camera set up in the hallway to alert him to the approach of the SWAT teams, so he could suicide before they broke down the door. (Which he did.)
Trump is giving a press conference, quoting scripture. Bizarre. He's finishing by praying for the day when people will be safe. How about frickin' making them safe, by not allowing them to have weapons that have no place outside a war zone.
"Haven't been looking. Ain't gonna start looking. I don't need experts. I have your admission; that's quite enough."
So yore citing me as yore expert? Well, in my expert opinion yore a dope.
(Cue Chumpy going through the gyrations necessary to claim that only my "admission" matters, and I don't get to have an opinion that differs from the one he pretends could be tortured out of the dictionary, whereby he wrangled agreement from my flat out contradiction of his position. Or something. Don't expect him to make any sense. LOL.)
"So yore citing me as yore expert?"
No.
"I don't need experts."
Lee C. @ Mon Oct 02, 10:16:00 am ↑↑
Eventually even you will figure this out.
"Even your diesel car won't do the 100 mpg necessary to make your comparison work."
What on earth are wittering about? I just told you the correct comparison.
"My point was that comparing the energy theoretically available from fossil fuels to the energy actually available to battery powered automobiles was a fraudulent comparison."
Huh? I just told you how the comparison works if you consider turning the fossil fuels into electricity and putting it on the grid to power an EV. It may not have entered your tiny mind, but the electric energy in an EV battery has to come from somewhere.
"You knew that when you made the comparison. You were intentionally trying to mislead people."
Y'all are finally losin' the plot. What I should have remembered is that yer feeble powers of arithmetic don't stretch to second grade multiplication. ;-)
"I believe probably everybody has figured that much out now."
Hilarious. Still preachin' to "yore audience" from the depths of dumbness.
Anyhow, I got better things to be doin' than teachin' you yore three-times-tables. Maybe Lynnette or Marcus can help y'all out. Ciao for now.
"I just told you the correct comparison."
No, you did not.
Holy crap! Number of deaths now at 58 or 59, 515 injured per latest from Clark County sheriff. Seriously, there were World War II battles with less casualties! I guess if you're going to allow civilians to own battle zone weaponry, somebody somewhere's going to use battle zone tactics on civilian sitting ducks.
I should say, Clark County was one of my customers in my day job. I do feel bad for them.
Ah, Petes is still around. That gives me the opportunity to point out that it wasn't me he was trying to con with his fraudulent comparison of the theoretical energy available in two gallons of gasoline to the actual energy available in a 75 kWh battery.
Repeat that to make it clear: It wasn't me he was trying to con.
I phrased that not quite correctly; should read: "to the actual energy available from a 75 kWh battery."
"his fraudulent comparison of the theoretical energy available in two gallons of gasoline"
Chumpy really has gone off the deep end. Apparently one billion vehicles around the world are now running on "theoretical" energy. I'd be more than happy if it were true, but unfortunately the local garage charges me €1.25 per litre of the stuff. Feels pretty "actual" to my pocket. LOL.
That's the best ya got?
Changing topics….
Politico has just published what I expect will become a string of articles from various news outlets examining the manifold ways in which the Trump administration has dropped the ball in offering relief to storm-tossed Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Virginia is doing statewide elections in 2017, early November. The National Rifle Association was set to go up with advertisements endorsing the entire Republican slate starting tomorrow. They've thought better of it in the wake of the Las Vegas shootings, and have put off their advertising blitz until at least the 10th, maybe later, maybe much later. Politico.Com
"That's the best ya got?"
For you ... yeah, ya dimwit. Ya think you stickin' the word "theoretical" in scare quotes merits more? You truly have no idea what yer rabbitin' on about.
"You truly have no idea what yer rabbitin' on about."
To the contrary, I was on top of all of it right until that last little rant of yours about putting "the word ‘theoretical’ in scare quotes".
I didn't do that. You did (@ Mon Oct 02, 01:18:00 pm ↑↑). But somehow you seem to have gotten yourself thoroughly confused on that point, as well as perhaps some of the rest.
(Irishman may have completely lost it here.)
Oh that's right -- it was italics, not scare quotes. Nice bit o' Jesuitical nitpickin' there y'all. Anyway, I'll leave y'all to yer dimwitted obscurantist theoretical musings. I got some actual physics to go study. Ciao. Don't forget dem 3-times-tables.
"Don't forget dem 3-times-tables."
You do realize that's not actually physics you're working on there, don't you?
You reckon that theoretical energy you just invented is physics? LOL.
I didn't invent any theoretical energy.
"My point was that comparing the energy theoretically available
from fossil fuels to the energy actually available to battery powered
automobiles was a fraudulent comparison. You knew that when you
made the comparison. You were intentionally trying to mislead
people."
Lee C. @ Mon Oct 02, 10:15:00 am ↑↑
You're still trying to mislead people. And it's not me you're trying to con.
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