In my state of Minnesota a black man
died at the hands of a Minneapolis police officer. There was no
reason for his death. He had done nothing to deserve that. Since
then our streets and many others around the country have erupted in a
paroxysm of rage and grief. Many, either in the streets or in the
halls of government, have tried to make this about themselves,
inciting a violence that only further hurts the Floyd family and the
community where they live. Those people only disrespect the memory
of a man who died so tragically.
I would like to honor Mr. Floyd's
memory with one of the most beautiful renditions of this song that I
have heard.
For all of the peaceful
demonstrators who have come out to honor Mr. Floyd and to seek a
justice that has been so scarce in the past.
255 comments:
1 – 200 of 255 Newer› Newest»It appears that George Will agrees with you Lee about what the fate of the Republican Party should be. And his commentary is even more scathing than yours.
I place this here because I suspect that we will not be able to solve the problems that led to George Floyd's death without some serious house cleaning in Washington. We need to learn to recognize the swamp things when they crawl out of the muck.
I saw Will's Op-Ed in The Washington Post. I started to link to it here, but then I noticed it's prominently linked in the CNN piece you've cited.
I think the difference between Will's position and mine is that he's arguing for what he thinks should happen. I've moved on a little bit past that point and I'm thinking it will happen.
The only thing the Republican Party still has as a consistent policy is the desire to win elections and thereby empower themselves to tear down the government they're being elected to run; it's a sort of political nihilism, approaching anarchist philosophy (although they would object to that description, and probably rightly so, because I'm pretty sure they'd stop short of full-on anarchy and latch firmly on to strong-man fascism, although they don't admit that).
Anyway… The reason I think it will happen is that the Republican Party is so very unpopular with the young, and FoxNews' average audience age is 68 years old (last time I looked). Their fascist friendly voter base is dying off and they're not replacing it with real live voters. And Trump has done nothing to change that dynamic.
That's part of the reason they seem so excessive to the rest of us. They know as well as the rest of us that they should have lost last time, and that was going to be their last good chance at holding power. (George "Dubya" Bush famously admitted in his 2017 memoirs that he feared that he was going to be "the last Republican President", ever--Trump's nominal affiliation with the Republican Party notwithstanding.) But, Trump beat the odds, slid through a hole in the fabric of democracy.
So, this go 'round is probably their last chance to make structural changes that will destroy our democracy. If they don't get it done this time, they'll probably not get it done at all. And they see that, so there's nothing holding them back. As far as they're concerned, there is not next time--it either works out for them this time, or it's all over for them.
That's why they seem so unrestrained.
Okay, I'm must really be out of touch with America. You're honoring a convicted criminal, Lynnette? What if you were the one or one of your family members had been the one against whose stomach George Floyd held a gun while his partner ransacked your house?
I mean, c'mon, Lynnette. This is effing madness.
In 2007, Floyd was charged with armed robbery in a home invasion in Houston, in which another man posed as a water department worker in an attempt to gain access to a woman’s residence, according to court documents.
When the woman realized he wasn’t actually a water department worker, she tried to close the door. That’s when five other men got out of a car that had just pulled up and forced their way inside.
According to charging documents, the largest man in the group, whom the victim identified as Floyd, “forced his way inside the residence, placed a pistol against the complainant’s abdomen, and forced her into the living room area of the residence."
Honor this guy?
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China.
*
"He became involved in his local ministry, Resurrection Houston, after
his release and was intent on making changes in himself and his
neighbourhood, says Mr Lillard.
"‛While he was embracing his own life change, he was looking
around at his community.’
"A video of Floyd decrying gun violence, believed to be filmed in
2017, has circulated on social media, in which he implored young
people to ‛come home’.
"His family told the Houston Chronicle he moved to Minnesota in 2018
after being encouraged by friends through a Christian work
programme.
"Christopher Harris, a friend and former classmate, told US media Mr
Floyd ‛was looking to start over fresh, a new beginning’.
"‛He was happy with the change he was making,' he added."
BBC
Lee C.,
And if George Floyd had held a gun against your stomach as the other guy, the one who had pretended to be water department worker, went through your place taking any valuables for money to buy cocaine? Would you honor him?
Yes, rule of law. Let's wait as all the facts come in. But to disregard this ex-convict's past reveals a malfunctioning value system.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
White guilt rises again. And, as Shelby Steele argues in multiple books, it does no one any good. In this world of “social justice,” now everyone is a victim — well, except for the woman whom George Floyd and his accomplice terrorized. She’s a cipher, not part of the real dramaturgy.
In the “social justice” world, an ex-convict is a victim and the woman he held at gunpoint is just some damned woman who should be smashed on the head with a rock anyway.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
In the “social justice” world, an ex-convict is a victim...
The term "ex-convict" implies that Mr. Floyd was convicted and served time for a crime. He was then released having served his sentence. He screwed up, yes. He paid a price for that. In our system of justice that should be the end of it. His past in no way means he deserves a death sentence at the hands of those who are tasked to protect and serve the citizens of the United States.
That there is evidence that he also tried to choose a different path after his release is to his credit. That there is also evidence that he could not completely turn away from criminal acts still does not mean he deserved to die.
"But to disregard this ex-convict's past reveals a malfunctioning
value system."
So, with that knowledge well in hand, why did you tell us about only part of this ex-convict's past, i.e., his criminal history, but then leave out the subsequent history of religious conversion and redemption?
Why did only part of your value system function there, or why did your value system only partly function, or however that went?
(The mention of his "redemption" assumes one credits his Christian religion with the redemptive powers it claims.)
And if you have such an apparently flawed value system do you really think you're in any position to be lecturing Lynnette?
...the woman he held at gunpoint is just some damned woman who should be smashed on the head with a rock anyway.
This woman survived and I presume testified against Mr. Floyd at trial.
Perhaps we should ask her if he deserved to die? Is that the punishment she would have meted out?
To honor Mr. Floyd's memory is not to ignore her pain, but to acknowledge his.
White guilt? I do not take blame for the acts of others.
Lynnette,
I know you won't change your mind.
But maybe you should consider honoring someone like retired Officer David Dorn from St. Louis instead, gunned down by social justice warriors as he was trying to protect a friend's store.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
And, more to the point, none of his history, neither the potentially laudable elements nor the past actions that warranted condemnation justified his murder on a public street in broad daylight, by the police no less.
He died face down in the street, begging for his life.
I see no damage done by Lynnette giving him back a little bit of the human dignity that the Minneapolis police denied him at the last.
Lee C.,
Here's a brick, man. Let 'er rip.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Post Script:
"I see no damage done by Lynnette…"
But obviously you find it objectionable. I'm curious as to why? (And, yes, you may consider that an open-ended question--hence the question mark.)
Maybe a tribute to David Dorn? No? Too old? Doesn't fit the victim narrative? Okay, sorry, it was just an idea.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"Doesn't fit the victim narrative?"
Long way from her native Minneapolis. Perhaps you could explain who he is and why a Minneapolis native would single him out from among all the others? (Yes, that's a question again.)
Lynnette and Lee C.,
As a teacher, I'm trained to push the edges of all issues in order to gain clarity. I will adopt different persona angles to do that.
I'm not attacking you two personally, but the ideas around these news stories.
So comparing George Floyd and David Dorn should reveal the deeper elements of each story and the social context in which we interpret their stories.
So yes, I understand the attraction of the Christian sin and redemption narrative we map onto George Floyd's story (and I think it's one of the great aspects of Western Christian culture), but what about David Dorn's story?
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"…but what about David Dorn's story?"
And, once again I ask, why separate Dorn out from all the rest? With George Floyd I got a clear why. It's cops that murdered him, in broad daylight, in front of a crowd. With apparently no sense of fear at all. They thought they could get away with it, or so it seems. They represent our security services and yet they feel they can kill us with impunity (and too often they're correct in that notion). That's worth my attention.
Dorn--another black man killed in the riots long ways away. What makes that one special that it should be selected out?
I get the reason for paying attention to the murder of Floyd; I understand that right off. What makes Dorn special?
Lee C. you're right. David Dorn is not important.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
As a teacher, I'm trained to push the edges of all issues in order to gain clarity. I will adopt different persona angles to do that.
Actually, I welcome a good discussion on the topics I blog about. It is a good way to encourage critical thinking, which is so important to our maintaining a robust democracy. I very much appreciate it coming from someone who is teaching in China. I hope you bring that element into your curriculum there as well. Your comments reminded me of the Jeffrey of old back in the day.
There is another reason why I chose to blog about George Floyd. He was killed in Minnesota by our Minneapolis police force in such an horrific manner. I believe it shouldn't have happened, no matter what his prior life story contained. It was a miscarriage of justice and should be addressed. If it leads to a more equitable treatment of all those in society then his death will not have been in vain. I really do hope that his daughter is right, that his death will have meaning and bring change.
David Dorn is not important.
As Lee mentioned I am not familiar with his case. But, of course he is important. As are all of those who sacrifice their lives for a cause greater than themselves. As are all of those who are even now contributing to rebuilding our communities and helping those in need. They do deserve acknowledgement because they will be part of the healing. But that is for another post.
Charges against Derek Chauvin have been upped to 2nd degree murder (intentional, not pre-meditated) and the other three have been charged as accomplices (aiding and abetting). NBCNews About damn time.
And I'm wondering about possible charges against a Hennepin County medical examiner as an accomplice after-the-fact.
NBC broadcast news just expanded on that 2nd degree murder charge. Apparently, under Minnesota law, it's not necessary they prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, nor even prove "reckless disregard". They can charge what's sometimes called "felony murder", a murder committed during the commission of another felony, as 2nd degree murder. In this case, that would be an intentional use of "excessive force" by the police, which would supply the underlying felony charge, being as that's against the law. Available jail time up to 40 years for Chauvin and for the three accomplices (in for a penny; in for a pound).
Ya'll remember when Putin sent his "little green men" into the Ukraine? There were thousands, if not tens of thousands of armed forces clad in green fatigue uniforms but bearing no recognizable insignia suddenly appearing at critical control points in the Crimea and across eastern Ukraine.
At first Putin denied these were Russian forces. Later he admitted that, of course they were Russian military. Putin, of course used those surreptitious forces to carve up the Ukrainian republic.
We now have our very own "little green men" appearing in and around Washington D.C. WashingtonPost. The Trump administration has been sneaking them into position without telling anybody. Test run for the November elections perhaps?
As the spooky little said, "Be afraid".
…spooky little girl said…
Lynnette,
Your comments reminded me of the Jeffrey of old back in the day.
Ha ha. Yes, exactly right. I was using a bit of one of my many personas used at Iraqi Bloggers Central.
To me, David Dorn's story is just as tragic as George Floyd's, maybe even more tragic. This was a very responsible African-American with a long career of protecting people in St. Louis and he was shot in cold blood by looters. But strangely the mainstream media is silent about his story. That's my only point.
I would also point out that European-Americans need to be very careful about falling into the white guilt trap. I say this as someone, as both of you know, who has one sister married to a Nigerian and another sister married to an African-American. Again, as Shelby Steele argues persuasively, white guilt helps no one.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"…he was shot in cold blood by looters."
You are jumping to unwarranted conclusions there.
We don't know the details of Dorn's shooting. Mr. Dorn was first discovered dying on the sidewalk, bleeding out. The "Facebook Live" videos of his death are just that; they are videos of his death, as he lay on the sidewalk already shot and bleeding out.
The details that lead up to his shooting, and the shooting itself, were not recorded.
As far as I know, nobody except the the surviving shooter actually knows what exactly happened, what led to Dorn being shot (assuming the shooter survived the encounter).
The lack of any evidence or witness has allowed certain partisan elements to construct a fantasy narrative around David Dorn's death to try to compete for "air time" with the very real story of the death of George Floyd. We might best consider it a "counter-narrative" intended to minimize the impact of what we do know about the murder of George Floyd.
You seem to have been taken in by the fantasy counter-narrative.
You might wish to reconsider your devotion to it.
"But strangely the mainstream media is silent about his story.
That's my only point."
Ah, well, which story should they tell? Shot at the dark in unknown circumstances after apparently volunteering himself into the role of armed vigilante? That story seems to be true, if perhaps framed a little harshly.
Or would you prefer they push the unsubstantiated assumption that he was "shot in cold blood by looters"
And, if you would prefer the latter, why would you want the "mainstream media" to push unsubstantiated assumptions as if they were known fact. (Arguably, we already have quite enough of that on the cable news channels (and, yes, I'm including FoxNews in that one on the one side, along with MSNBC on the other); don't need more of it in the more of it in the mainstream media I don't reckon.)
Again, as Shelby Steele argues persuasively, white guilt helps no one.
I have examined my reaction to George Floyd's death and truly believe it has nothing to do with guilt of any sort. It was an honest reaction to what to my eyes was an egregious use of force that led to a man's death. It didn't matter if he were black or white.
Yes, perhaps, there is something to the guilt thing when looking at the myriad reactions to what happened. But there are people out there who are genuinely concerned with changing our country for the better. They are the ones who are marching or quietly supporting those who demonstrate peacefully for that change. "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" really should be for all Americans, not just a few. Honestly, I was afraid of the apathy I was seeing in so many after Trump was elected. But in looking at what is happening now I have never been more proud of my fellow Americans who are seeking justice and peaceful change.
Trump and his ilk would drag our country in a direction that was never intended. We do not want to be Russia or North Korea. At least that is what I always believed. Those who march now give me hope that my belief was right. We will stand up to fight for those who are being abused and marginalized. If George Floyd's death brings us out of our apathetic cocoons then he will deserve more accolades than anyone that I can think of. His death will have stood for something.
There is a reason that more people are coming out to speak against Trump. They are bolstered by the courage of those who march. This is the America I love.
he Trump administration has been sneaking them into position without telling anybody. Test run for the November elections perhaps?
I'll have to read that tonight. It looks very interesting.
…spooky little girl said…
I hope in this case the spooky little girl will turn out to be jumping the gun. So to speak. I still have hope that my country was built on stronger stuff.
Hong Kong's "home rule" legislative body has passed a law making it illegal to diss on China's national anthem. I'm thinkin' this now qualifies them for their very own NFL team in the next expansion.
We now have our very own "little green men" appearing in and around Washington D.C.
With Trump and his supporters it's really hard to tell if their reasoning is Machiavellian or just shear stupidity. After reading the article I have to wonder if those people from BOP were dug up on short notice for manpower after all of the Democratic Governors next door refused a request to deploy their National Guard troops to DC.
You know, sometimes it pays to remain in your neighbor's good graces.
Let me recommend to both of you an interview with Shelby Steele from two years ago.
Shelby Steele in conversation with Peter Robinson.
I would be ashamed if my brothers-in-law and nieces and nephews broke storefront windows and ran inside to steal a pair of sneakers in the name of "protest."
Both of you are complicit in infantilizing African-Americans by holding them to such low standards.
You're not healing anyone. You're just maintaining an illusion of an open wound, of white oppression, that African-Americans who are unable to accept responsibility for themselves are exploiting. They trap you into accepting guilt for the past while they claim complete innocence. It's a low trick.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"I would be ashamed if my brothers-in-law and nieces and
nephews broke storefront windows and ran inside to steal a
pair of sneakers in the name of 'protest.'"
The notion that anybody is stealing sneakers in the name of 'protest.'" is a FoxNews' fantasy, fabricated from ignorance and sold to a gullible audience intent on believing whatever is necessary of the present situation to maintain their other political fantasies. ("Motivated belief" is, I think, the popular nomenclature.)
I'm afraid you've convinced me that you're not enough on top of the situation to credibly judge just who's "infantilizing" whom, else you'd not be sucking down that FoxNews' fantasy in the first place.
(And I figure you're not going to answer those last couple of questions I posed either. I see no reason to press that point further, except to say that I'm not surprised.)
Lee C.,
I guess you didn't listen to Shelby Steele talk, right?
Okay, let me ask you, do you have any Africans or African-Americans in your family? If not, I call you a racist. Do you have any African or African-American friends? If not, I call you a racist. I have seven African-American nieces and nephews. How many do you have? It's nice to spout support for African-Americans without allowing them into your own life.
I don't watch ANY news.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"I guess you didn't listen to Shelby Steele talk, right?"
That's only right if you interpret your guess to mean that I haven't listened to Shelby Steele talk in the last few days. That much is true. I haven't listened to him in the last few days, and not much at all since I first noticed he was fulla shit some years ago.
Or, to more fully answer your question. I'm already well acquainted with the theories of Shelby Steele and I believe the world would be a marginally better place if he'd restricted his grasping at notoriety and fame to the field of English literature for which he trained.
"I call you a racist."
You seem to be operating under the assumption that I give a damn what you call me.
We can add that to the list of assumptions that you really should reexamine.
"I don't watch ANY news."
And yet the fantasy finds you anyway. (Or maybe it's vice versa.)
Lee C.,
So you ARE a racist.
Damn. To be honest, I wasn't expecting that.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette and Lee C.,
A Real Profile in Courage.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lee C.,
I don't actually believe you are a full-blown racist. My guess is that is that you don't interact with African Americans very much (and that's perfectly okay). But I was just illustrating how the charge of racism -- or being an Uncle Tom -- is used by those who want to stop all discussion. Don't agree that George Young should be honored? Then you're a racist if you're European American and self-hating Uncle Tom if you're African American. See how that works?
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"Don't agree that George Young should be honored? Then you're a
racist if you're European American and self-hating Uncle Tom if
you're African American. See how that works?"
That's not how that works.
Nor do people "steal sneakers in the name of 'protest'".
You're battin' way down in the double aughts today (if that well).
I notice today that the National Association of Police Organizations has come out and denounced Joe Biden. The "National Association etc." is the national umbrella organization for all our local "Police Officers Associations" (by whatever local name they operate). The national organization supported the Obama/Biden ticket in 2008 and 2012 basically because Biden was on the ticket and he had been a consistent supporter of the police unions across the country (Biden was always a big union supporter, not just police unions, but across the board).
However, Biden's also historically been friendly to, and a favorite of, black voters, and today's social edges are raising the stakes between those two sources of support for Biden. Recent videos taken during the latest protests show several instances of what I can only describe as vengeful, out-of-control police cadres taking their retribution on protesters in the streets. I've seen a young black couple, college kids, in Atlanta, targeted for no apparent reason, surrounded, their car windows broken out and the kids tased where they sat screaming for mercy, and then dragged out of the vehicle then handcuffed and tased some more (guy's wrists were broken during his convulsions as some cops held him spread-eagle while the other cops tased him repeatedly). There's another one of a couple of cops assaulting a 75 year old man just because they could and leaving him bleeding and unconscious on the sidewalk. Several like that going around now.
So, looks like they think Biden's not gonna come down on their side anymore, not completely anyway, and they're gonna support Trump in this next election.
"There's another one of a couple of cops assaulting a 75 year old
man just because they could and leaving him bleeding and uncon-
scious on the sidewalk."
↑↑
The two cops who committed the assault have been suspended without pay pending an investigation. However, all 57 of the remaining police who served along side those two on the Buffalo, New York "Emergency Response Team" have resigned from that supposedly elite service team in protest over the (they say) improper and unwarranted restriction of their customary practice of assaulting citizens whenever they feel like it.
(N.B. The 57 resigned from their service on the "Emergency Response Team"; they have not resigned their jobs with the Buffalo Police Department, where they presumably retain the right to assault the defenseless pretty much whenever they feel moved to do so. So, they're not actually missing a paycheck or anything like that.)
Lee C., and Lynnette,
I really, really didn't want to look into American politics and the current president, but I thought I should spend a little time to find out what you guys are complaining about all the time, so I went online. Well, you guys might be onto something. I found this video:
Reasons Trump Should Not be President.
I'm not completely persuaded, but my neutral position might have to change.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
I started to look into Shelby Steele but after running around all day yesterday I kind of started to fall asleep. Since he deserves at least a hearing I will have to listen when I have a bit more energy.
But, Jeffrey, you really are in a unique position to speak on racial matters in that you have relatives who are African-American. What are they saying about everything that is going on? How do they think those not of color should respond and how could they be part of the solution to the American racial divide?
As for Trump, no he really shouldn't have been president for any number of reasons. The problem now is getting rid of him. That means Americans really need to step up to the plate and look deeply into what this country aspired to be and the simple need we have for competent government. it may be going well for the upper 1% but the bottom 99% have a right to expect their needs to be met as well.
Lynnette,
From our view, the biggest problems that African Americans have are within the African-American community itself. You should know that the African Americans in my family are highly educated and successful in medicine and business.
Yes, there are still elements of discrimination in American culture, but the issues among African Americans themselves are far, far more important. My brothers-in-law are good husbands and fathers. They haven't abandoned their wives and children. They are outliers within the African American community -- and that's a problem.
They see BLM as mostly a sad hustle by people who don't want to do the hard work to become successful and make a positive contribution to both African American and American life. It's an insidious hustle to make non-African Americans feel as though they are responsible for their own failings. Very dishonest.
Hey, take a look at my last link about the reasons Trump should not be elected president. I'd love to hear your response.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Phew, a lot to take in. It's supposed to turn hot and humid today so I had to get out and weed/hoe in my garden yesterday. My former neighbor in an effort at privacy planted a vine along her back fence. Since she moved out it's been crawling all over the yards. It's highly invasive and extremely sneaky, hiding in places where valuable plants are growing. In my case it was nestled among my strawberries. Left unchecked it would take over the whole space.
Anyway, while I haven't had a chance to get back to Shelby I did take some time to listen a bit to Scott Adams. My guess is, Jeffrey, that your relatives are pretty representative of his views?
I don't mean to sound wishy washy but I think that in the case of BLM there is probably a little room for both the fundamental fact of racial bias in America and the fact that some people may use this movement as some kind of prop to try to avoid doing the heavy lifting of life. You will always find people who will try to take the easy way out, but I do feel that the playing field, so to speak, needs to be evened out a little. There is a reason that some people find it more difficult to advance in society. This holds true, not just for black folks, but for women as well, or anyone else who has been marginalized. I suspect that your relatives would be high achievers no matter what color their skin or environment they reside in. But for others it's a little tougher to break out without some strong encouragement and help.
What I do know is that no one should feel fear at encountering the police unless they are actually committing a crime. It should not be a death sentence.
My guess is, Jeffrey, that your relatives are pretty representative of his views?
I meant Shelby Steele, not Adams.
Scott Adams has drunk way too much of the Kool Aid. He reminded me of the the My Pillow guy. Sad, very sad.
I don't want a Jim Jones for President.
A Real Profile in Courage.
It's still America and she can feel and express her opinion as she wishes. I would ask her one question. Why is the black community committing a larger amount of the the crime?
The massive protest demonstrations against police brutality on blacks continue unabated, but the looting has virtually ceased. That's actually not very surprising. The looters and the protesters were mostly different sub-sets of the citizenry. The protesters weren't looting, the looters were looting. They were merely taking advantage of the protests to give them cover (with, one might notice, the tacit assistance of many police departments, which couldn't be bothered with policing the looters).
The looting didn't generally start until the second night, didn't usually get going strong until the third night of protests in any particular location.
The problem for the protesters was they they weren't ready yet, weren't organized enough at first, to clamp down on the looters. (Probably they hadn't anticipated the need at first.)
When the police failed to do that as well, the protesters learned quickly how to cull out the looters themselves.
The authorities went on television with a video of a suspect in the arson that happened in St. Paul. He was white.
The Minneapolis city council has voted to dismantle and de-fund the Minneapolis Police Department. I am not quite sure what they are hoping to accomplish with that. Or if they can even do so. But I can't imagine they will want to totally remove policing in Minneapolis so they will have to come up with some kind of plan to replace the system they have now.
"The Minneapolis city council has voted to dismantle and de-fund
the Minneapolis Police Department."
I saw that. From what I've read, they don't know precisely what they want to do either. But, it apparently doesn't mean that they want to face a future with no police. They just want to make a few headlines for now, and then figure out how they're actually going to reorganize the police department later. So, yeah, pretty much how you described it.
You can bet that FoxNews and the Trump campaign will tell the story differently though.
Lynnette,
It's still America and she can feel and express her opinion as she wishes. I would ask her one question. Why is the black community committing a larger amount of the the crime?
Most likely, following African American sociologists like Glenn Loury, she would say that crimes are committed at a higher rate by African Americans because of value issues within their community.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette,
I don't want a Jim Jones for President.
If you really believe that Trump is equivalent to Jim Jones, then you and Lee C. ought to be working together to assassinate President Trump.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lee C. and Lynnette,
Okay, the other day I watched, for the first time, twenty minutes of so of one of President Trump's press conferences. Man, that guy really loves superlatives. Everything is the biggest and the greatest. Kind of between a braggart and a blowhard. Does that disqualify him from being president? For some, it seems so.
My guess is that most of the Trump haters dislike him mostly for his personal style. Yes, people like you and Lee C. can cite any number of reasons for your antipathy, but mostly it's because you just don't like his personal style -- his way of being in the world.
To you guys, Trump is the blowhard bully from high school -- or something like that. Forget about bringing reason into this discussion. You guys are WAY beyond reason.
Your hatred is a gut-level response. Hey, you might be right. But you don't need to hand me your list of reasons for your hatred. That's a joke.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Bloomberg: Editorial, not Op-Ed: The magazine argues for relaxing immigration restrictions against denizens of Hong Kong.
It makes some sense (I'm not sold on the idea, but it's not as dumb-ass as most of the ideas to expand H-1B visas). I can't see the Trump administration expanding visas for non-whites though, even if it will gall the Chinese government.
It's an interesting persona you have adopted, Jeffrey. So if you don't want to listen to the reasons why we dislike Trump, perhaps you should give us reasons why we shouldn't dislike him?
That's considerably more polite than I was going to be. Although, it took you three tries.
Most likely, following African American sociologists like Glenn Loury, she would say that crimes are committed at a higher rate by African Americans because of value issues within their community.
Really? Interesting. What sort of value issues?
Although, it took you three tries.
lol! I screwed up the wording the first time and tried to fix it with a second comment. But then I just decided to start over to clean it up.
Lynnette,
Have you ever actually lived with African Americans?
I lived in Harlem and Spanish Harlem in New York and the Western Addition in San Francisco. The obvious social problems are openly discussed among African Americans. The sources of the issues are deep within the neighborhood, where Black on Black crime and lack of personal responsibility are debated by those who want a better life.
Here are two African American voices:
Anthony Brian Logan.
Brandon Tatum.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette and Lee C.,
I'm starting to realize that you two know nothing about Africans or African Americans. You're just white crackers who emote about trendy issues. Jeezus, man. Have some self respect.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"Have you ever actually lived with African Americans?"
Not even an interesting trick, too mundane. You reply to her question with your own question on a totally different subject.
We'll have to wait to see if she lets you get away with that.
Lee C.,
I never figured you'd turn out to be a shallow virtue signaller. I guess you're "woke" now, right?
Get back to me when you actually have African Americans in your family and you hug your African American nieces and nephews and really care about them. THEN we can talk.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
The obvious social problems are openly discussed among African Americans.
Any solution must start with an acknowledgement of a problem. That holds true for anyone.
The sources of the issues are deep within the neighborhood, where Black on Black crime and lack of personal responsibility are debated by those who want a better life.
Crime, be it black or white, always hurts a community. Prevention through education, job opportunities, and social supports for families in need would be a help. The need for a safe environment to grow up in can't be overstated.
The looting and arson that took place not only in Minneapolis, but elsewhere, was uncalled for and criminal. It was also done by various people, not just African-Americans. At least that was the case here in Minnesota. I can't speak for other states. Those people who committed those crimes need to be prosecuted in a court of law. Just like the police officers who killed George Floyd.
Get back to me when you actually have African Americans in your family and you hug your African American nieces and nephews and really care about them.
If the requirement for understanding others is to be related to them then we might as well give up.
"I never figured you'd turn out to be a shallow virtue
signaller. I guess you're 'woke' now, right?"
Doubling down on the mundane gambit doesn't improve the move even a little bit.
I probably ought to be offended that you'd think that would work on me. But, it's you. Ya're who ya're. And that makes it harder for me to take easy offense, knowin' that you're doin' your best. (Not impossible for me to take offense mind you, might happen yet.)
Lynnette,
The looting and arson that took place not only in Minneapolis, but elsewhere, was uncalled for and criminal.
Last night I watched footage of all the arson and looting all over the country for the first time. I have to tell you I was really shocked. This was the first video I watched:
Video from Karl Kroll.
Because I don't follow the news, I had only thought there were a few protests marches and some scattered looting. I had no idea how much senseless destruction there was. Many of those small businesses were, of course, the life savings of the owners.
If the requirement for understanding others is to be related to them then we might as well give up.
That tells me everything I need to know. You have no skin in the game, as they say. I do. It makes all the difference.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Sorry, here's that link again:
Video from Karl Kroll.
If you watch his other videos shot in Minneapolis, what you see is mostly African Americans burning and looting at night and then European Americans cleaning up the next morning. What a damn joke.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"I had no idea how much senseless destruction there was."
The inability to anticipate the urge for destruction is a result of you havin' no idea how much stored-up anger there is/was. Your claim to access to the black heritage notwithstanding.
We saw the same anger manifest in the looting of Baghdad, many years ago. Not much excuse for you to not understand it so many years later, but obviously you still don't understand.
And, by the way, the looting has been largely put down here of late (not so much by the police who too often couldn't be bothered to try to stop it--didn't seem to want to stop it in too many cases, but largely by those who began to organize the protests, them getting wiser about how to manage their protests and cull the looters).
Looting's been largely quashed. The protests, however, are still going strong.
Explain that one for us.
Lee C.,
Pent-up anger? What a damn fool. That arson and looting came from a very real and very criminal element within the African American community. They saw an opportunity and took it to get free stuff, from sundries to flat-screen TVs. David Dorn was killed for a TV.
That slice of criminality within the African American communitym by definition, does not represent all African Americans. As I've told you guys, in my family the Africans and African Americans are highly educated and successful and morally responsible people. None of them support your "pent-up anger" theory.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lee C.,
The protests, however, are still going strong.
Are you sure about that?
Explain that one for us.
If so, easy to explain. White guilt virtue-signalling by "woke" crackers like you, plus a sizable group of African Americans hustling those white crackers.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"Are you sure about that?"
Yes.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"David Dorn was killed for a TV."
Recently discovered video seems to indicate that Dorn, who was armed, confronted a man by name of Stephan Cannon on a street corner, and that Cannon also had a handgun, but neither of them had a TV on or about his person.
"If so, easy to explain. White guilt virtue-signalling by
'woke' crackers like you, plus a sizable group of African
Americans hustling those white crackers."
I've thought that one clear through. If there's even a remote chance that you believe that rant explains why the protests continue while the looting has been contained, then you're crazier than I could have guessed.
If you're that nuts I'm just gonna lay off of ya (no point to pursuing that much madness) and let ya run the rest of your rant with Lynnette, and I'll not poke the crazie.
Although, I might add in closing that….
Several "mainstream" media reports have indicated of late that there's been comparatively little looting during this round of "Black Lives Matter" protests.
Of course, any little bit of looting goes a long damn way if it's your stuff that's getting looted. So I don't mean to deprecate the losses to those who've suffered the losses.
Nevertheless, we do seem to have a comparatively small amount of actual looting getting a large amount of extended air time, the same scenes show again and again, often from different angles to make them seem new, on FoxNews, OANN, and the other favored right-winger propaganda sources. (And, of course, getting curated on YouTube as if anecdote was overwhelming evidence.)
Lee C.,
About Stephan Cannon:
"A television taken from the pawn shop was recovered at the home where Cannon was arrested. The serial number was confirmed by Lee’s Pawn and Jewelry store,” KTVI reported.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"…at the home where Cannon was arrested…"
Wasn't Cannon's residence. The resident/occupant/renter/whatever was also arrested; fella by the name of Jimmie Robinson. Robinson was charged with first degree burglary. So far as I know Robinson's possession of a stolen tv was not the proximate cause of Dorn opening fire on Cannon (video seems to indicate that Dorn probably fired first, and missed).
"…video seems to indicate that Dorn probably fired first, and missed."
Could be that's what got Dorn shot; not the tv.
All right, Inspector Lee C., keep my updated.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Aren't you going to wax prolific over the temerity of Cannon, rant some continuing indignation about Cannon having the absolute gall to shoot back at a volunteer vigilante?
Lee C.,
Can I ask you a serious question? Listen, I don't want to be too harsh, but what kind of life are you living? Maybe you can't see it, but it's not normal.You've been commenting almost daily at a handful of blogs for probably the last fifteen years or so.
Even back when I was running Iraqi Bloggers Central, there was something not quite right about you. You could never engage in debate with others on the comments pages without taking it personally and you always had to proclaim that your view on whatever matter was 100% correct. You never admitted that you didn't know EVERYTHING about a topic or that you had made mistakes in the past. You argued with everyone and basically told everyone they were dumbasses.
I'm telling you that, as a teacher of around thirty years, it's not normal. Most people are flexible about these types of matters. You're not. And that's why I nicknamed you Sheriff Lee C.
I'll be honest. When I drop by here once or twice a year, I always hope that you'll have moved on. I think maybe you've actually found a wife and now enjoy your time with her instead of engaging in nit-picking denunciations of Petes and Marcus.
Lee C., life is much sweeter than the feeling you get when you think that once again you're right (and in your mind you're always right) and everyone else is a dumbass.
I know that right now you and Lynnette have a nice thing going on here, where you can fill each other in on what Trump has done wrong from day to day. But you might want to think of giving commenting a rest. There is real life beyond your keyboard.
I know you're probably going to disregard what I've written, but tonight as I was getting ready to type a response I remembered these thoughts I had when I first stopped by Still Healing and saw you engaging with the others the same as on the Iraqi blogs of old. It was kind of sad.
So does Sheriff Lee C. need therapy? Maybe a few sessions wouldn't hurt. The badge will still be shiny. But maybe just a few months off and a date would help more.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
I take it you've given up on your efforts to beatify David Dorn?
Lee C.,
I'm working on sanctifying George Young right now. I'll get back to Dorn later.
I haven't given up on YOU, Lee C. I hear wedding bells in your future.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lee C.,
Hold it, isn't his name George Floyd?
If I'm going to officially sanctify him, I better get the name right.
So who is George Young? Hm. I think he was a general manager for the New York Giants. Someone might fact-check that for me.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette,
Where exactly do you live in Minnesota? Are you in Minneapolis?
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Still way more black on white crime than vice versa. Whites are the most peaceful of any “color” grouping. (Except for Asians if you count then non white). Way way way most of killings in the us are black on black. And this is not even addressed bc it’s deemed like a force of nature or something (which it largely is) or the blame falls on white folks for being discriminatory against them blacks so they have no choice but to grab up guns and kill eacother.
"Way way way most of killings in the us are black on black."
The numbers I found available, real numbers not Marcus imaginary numbers, were from 2015…
"Among the roughly 6,000 cases in which the race of the
victim and the offender were known, the number of blacks
killed by blacks…2,380….
***
"The number of white people killed by other whites…2,574….".
USNews
2,574 > 2,380--white-on-white wins by a nose!
Last night I watched footage of all the arson and looting all over the country for the first time. I have to tell you I was really shocked.
Yes, something was different this time. This wasn't like Baltimore or other places. It was widespread. Maybe more organized. My cousin, who lives in a smaller town up north, even had bus loads of people going through their town and trying to stop. They were coming from Fargo and the assumption was made that they were heading toward St. Cloud. In my cousin's town all of the business owners, police, and other private citizens like my cousin came out to basically stand in front of all of the businesses so that when the people got off the buses they faced a wall of people. There was no burning or looting there. Most of the people on those buses were white.
I do think that, like the criminal element, there were others who piggybacked on the George Floyd killing. What their intent was, other then to cause chaos, I wouldn't hazard a guess.
I feel that right now the country is dealing with multiple situations, a pandemic, economic deflation(on purpose) and the lurking specter of climate change, that require competent leadership as well as people who are willing to step up to the plate to find solutions. Perhaps the George Floyd killing on top of so many others was the straw that broke the camels back. People are just fed up with everything.
It does rather surprise me, though, that you seem to believe that someone you would call a "braggart and a blowhard" might be up to the task of seeing our country through these uncharted waters.
So who is George Young?
George Young was an Australian musician, Jeffrey.
Australia...since we're talking about days gone by, wasn't that where that crazy girl Suz who used to hang out at Zeyad's was from? Or was she New Zealand?
Are you in Minneapolis?
No, I live north of the cities.
New Zealand.
"…bc it’s deemed like a force of nature or something
(which it largely is)…"
Really?
You're promoting the proposition that the higher incidence of violent crime among black Americans (as compared to white Americans) is due to some unidentified "natural" process.
Is that correct?
"Still way more black on white crime than vice versa."
Yeah, well, that's not true either, except for some specific categories of violent street crime.
This is the week where we are opening in house dining, movie theaters and hair salons. My favorite bookstore just reopened. I will have to stop in and welcome them back.
The number of newly confirmed cases in my county seems to have slackened off somewhat. I guess we won't know for a couple weeks if we have a new spike in cases like some of the other states.
A co-worker who lives in Minneapolis was saying that there are quite a few businesses that are still boarded up. She wasn't sure if it was because of damage or fear of having their windows broken by a resurgence of violence. But she said that many of the boards are being painted with some rather creative murals. That is in addition to the one of George Floyd painted earlier. When the businesses reopen they may want to try to save the murals.
It appears that in a recent CNN poll most Americans support the protesters by a wide margin.
Lynnette,
In my cousin's town all of the business owners, police, and other private citizens like my cousin came out to basically stand in front of all of the businesses so that when the people got off the buses they faced a wall of people. There was no burning or looting there. Most of the people on those buses were white.
Very strange. Who are these people? You're saying they arrived on buses to small towns intent on mischief? And they're white? Why aren't the reporters working on this?
By the way, my sisters in New Jersey said they had no arson or looting either in their towns. I think even Newark was okay. But one of my nieces is in Philly. That burned.
By the way, that niece, who is half European-American and half African-American, is starting med school in September. She's done all the hard work to make a future for herself and contribute to the US. The long road of med school is just beginning. She would never think of running into a trashed drugstore to grab a few sundries worth a couple dollars. I'm sorry. That's pathetic. Can you imagine doing that? I can't.
As I've said, the real issues are within the African-American community. We need to assist them as much as possible, but the real work at reform they must do themselves. It starts with valuing education and not treating it as "acting white."
It does rather surprise me, though, that you seem to believe that someone you would call a "braggart and a blowhard" might be up to the task of seeing our country through these uncharted waters.
I don't believe I've ever said that. So far, I've watched Trump speak for twenty minutes. Mr. Superlative. Seems a bit scanty information on which for me to make a claim. But listen, he may be exactly the right guy to lead us through all of this. Or not. Maybe Sleepy Joe is just the guy to inspire America.
Trump will never allow the defunding of the police, so that's something. I've lived in many countries. Anyone who thinks you can maintain safety without some kind of security apparatus is nuts. They're fools, to be blunt. You'd have those looters back as soon as they ran out batteries or toothpaste. Who would stop them? And if you tried, you be labelled a racist.
Well, that's assuming the president of the US can control how local governments fund or not police. Maybe you or Lee C. could research that for me. I'd be curious. Can a town or city just fire the entire police force? Is it legal?
I do think that, like the criminal element, there were others who piggybacked on the George Floyd killing. What their intent was, other then to cause chaos, I wouldn't hazard a guess.
That's obvious now. It's still not the inter-generation friction that I recall from the tail-end of the 1960s. That was far more intense, but this situation is definitely emitting some heat. American is always filled with dissatisfied people -- mostly due to our high expectations. Recent events allow them to vent.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette,
A co-worker who lives in Minneapolis was saying that there are quite a few businesses that are still boarded up. She wasn't sure if it was because of damage or fear of having their windows broken by a resurgence of violence. But she said that many of the boards are being painted with some rather creative murals. That is in addition to the one of George Floyd painted earlier. When the businesses reopen they may want to try to save the murals.
Yeah, I'd keep the boards up for a while longer. Open the main door, but keep all the windows boarded up. Cash register plugged in and a sawed-off shotgun under the counter.
In my family, in a small Iowa town, we had a hardware business that my grandfather started after moving there in 1919 from Chicago. My uncle and my father ran it for years. It was a huge store with pretty much everything you could think of, from ten-penny nails to cutlery to fishing tackle. On Friday nights, farmers would come to town to drop off the kids at the local movie house and then ma and pa came to our store to do some serious shopping for the coming week back on the farm. I worked there, too, before going off to college.
Like your cousin north of you, we would have been out in front of that storefront ready to take down ANYONE who wanted to destroy a business we ran for close to a hundred years.
When I watched those videos of businesses in Minneapolis burning and the satisfied faces of those "woke" assholes, you have no idea how disgusted I was. I know how much effort went into each one of those businesses. And all destroyed for what? Some passing emotion?
I don't see as much separation of the protesters and the looters as you do. I blame both. If the protesters can't separate out the criminal element among them, then they're just as guilty. I've seen the videos now. The protester, arsonist, and looter are often the same person.
Murals. Sorry, but I hate all murals. To me, they're just empty virtue signalling. I'd toss all of them into a pile and ask one of the local unemployed arsonists to light them up for a few dollars.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Marcus,
Way way way most of killings in the us are black on black. And this is not even addressed bc it’s deemed like a force of nature or something (which it largely is) or the blame falls on white folks for being discriminatory against them blacks so they have no choice but to grab up guns and kill eacother.
Yes, that's one of the issues within the African American community that serious African Americans know they have to address. It's a hellish problem. They know it. For some African Americans, the easy way out is to blame others for what is an intra-community problem.
For clear-thinking African Americans, the murder of David Dorn, which was a black-on-black crime, is far more representative of what happens to them.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette,
This is the week where we are opening in house dining, movie theaters and hair salons. My favorite bookstore just reopened. I will have to stop in and welcome them back.
Ah, good to hear.
Years ago, before I was a college librarian and then teacher, I worked in bookstores -- in San Francisco, Chicago, and New York City. My favorite store was Barbara's Bookstore in the Old Town section of Chicago. In the summer, we could wear shorts and sandals while working. So I have a soft spot for all bookstores and the people who frequent them.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"[Black on black violence] is deemed like a force of nature or
something (which it largely is)…"
Marcus as quoted by Jeffrey @ Wed Jun 10, 11:48 pm ↑↑
"For some African Americans, the easy way out is to blame
others for what is an intra-community problem."
Jeffrey @ Wed Jun 10, 11:48:00 pm ↑↑
I find this exchange remarkable coming from one who claims to have a familial connection to a large black family.
First of all, there's Marcus up there insinuating that higher rates of black violence is "natural". A more completely racist statement I have not heard lately, and yet Jeffrey doesn't even appear to notice.
Second, we have Jeffrey insinuating that black America has an "intra-community problem" with violence, as if black America had ever been allowed to establish its own community. (They ain't never been allowed their own and exclusive police now have they? Ain't gonna happen neither.)
It ain't proof positive, of course, but, even if this were the only evidence to suggest it (and it's not), one would have to strongly suspect that Jeffrey's supposed black family is merely another of his many and varied, and famous, or infamous, take your pick, fake personæ.
Lee C.,
Second, we have Jeffrey insinuating that black America has an "intra-community problem" with violence,...
I wasn't insinuating. I was stating my agreement with African Americans like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter, among others, who make those arguments.
...as if black America had ever been allowed to establish its own community.
Well, I think you should move to Seattle and become a resident of that new neighborhood run by Black Lives Matter and Antifa. I'm sure you being a cracker won't bother them.
Supposed black family? C'mon, Lee. That's beneath you. My Nigerian brother-in-law Chris is from Ossomola, close to Onitsha, on the east side of the River Niger. Go ahead,do your digging. You know you want to.
Chris was living in San Francisco and studying medicine when he heard a young woman singing in the choir at a local Roman Catholic church. Chris is an Igbo Roman Catholic. He loved her voice so much that he got up the courage to speak to her after mass. Yep, that young woman is one of sisters.
The odd thing is that my paternal grandparents got together in the exact same way. But back then it was my grandfather who was visiting relatives in the small town of Independence, Iowa.
After mass, he approached one of the churchgoers outside the church about the woman with the beautiful voice. "That's my daughter," the man replied. Well, they ended up marrying and moving to Chicago and lived there until 1919, raising the first four of their seven children (my dad being the last, the baby of the family). Grandpa had been a bookkeeper in a brewery in Chicago and if you know your history you probably know why they decided to move to Iowa to get into the hardware business.
My African-American brother-in-law (whom we call Christopher to distinguish him from the brother-in-law with the same name from Nigeria) grew up on the South Side of Chicago, but in a middle-class family. He went to Grinnell College in Iowa, where he met my sister. No singing this time. Both of them now have MBAs. He graduated from Wharton at Penn and she graduated from Stern at NYU.
So from those two unions, one aided by singing and the other not, I've acquired seven nieces an nephews.
Do you want their social security numbers?
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"Supposed black family? C'mon, Lee. That's beneath you."
The point is that fabricating up a black family is not beneath you. (Nor would be falsely asserting that they agree with whatever happens to be your assertion of the moment, not if you thought that having a black family in agreement with you might help you press your point. However, we know that to be the fallacy called "argumentum ad verecundiam" the appeal to authority--hoping your audience will accept the authority of your invoked, supposedly black, family--a variation of your tendency to invoke folks like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter and Shelby Steele. (Off topic, I notice you have a marked preference for using English professors as you supposed authorities even, maybe especially, for conclusions that are well outside of the fields in which they were trained.))
However, it's a fallacious argument to begin with, "argumentum ad verecundiam" you might remember, so I don't intend to waste too much time it on beyond pointing out that false personæ are pretty much your stock in trade, and that this situation doesn't warrant any assumptions to the contrary just because you've decided to double down on it.
But: If you can get them to provide us their social security numbers, sure, go ahead with that part.
Typo correction:
"…so I don't intend to waste too much time on it beyond pointing out that false personæ are pretty much your stock in trade…"
Now, do you want to deal with the meat of my comment, or you wanna wallow 'round in your claim to having a black family instead?
And just so you don't have ask what was:
"Second, we have Jeffrey insinuating that black America has
an 'intra-community problem' with violence, as if black
America had ever been allowed to establish its own
community."
Very strange. Who are these people?
Good question. No worries, I suspect we'll get to the bottom of it.
So far, I've watched Trump speak for twenty minutes. Mr. Superlative. Seems a bit scanty information on which for me to make a claim.
Ahhh, my mistake. For some reason you gave me the impression you had kind of made up your mind about him. Kind of like I have.
She would never think of running into a trashed drugstore to grab a few sundries worth a couple dollars. I'm sorry. That's pathetic. Can you imagine doing that? I can't.
I can't say that I would, but then I haven't grown up in the same environment. So it is a bit like comparing apples to oranges.
Can a town or city just fire the entire police force? Is it legal?
No, at least not in the case of Minneapolis. There is a city charter that would have to be amended. That would take a 100% vote by the City Council, which won't happen. It could also be changed by voters, which won't happen either. I think the wording used by the City Council was rather deceptive. I can just about guarantee that Minneapolis will not totally abolish its police force. They may make some deep changes, but they will not go without any sort of law enforcement. Trump and his supporters can rest easy.
...this situation is definitely emitting some heat.
Indeed. Enough heat to actually be, well, revolutionary. I think some people have underestimated how far America really has come in race relations. Yes, there are still racists among us, but their numbers may not be as great as people think. Just because people are quiet doesn't mean they will continue to allow this to go on without some real change. Someone once said it takes a village. Yes, it does, and I think that village has been riled up.
Yeah, I'd keep the boards up for a while longer. Open the main door, but keep all the windows boarded up. Cash register plugged in and a sawed-off shotgun under the counter.
Thanks for the warning.
Murals. Sorry, but I hate all murals.
As I recall you hated emoji's too. But I rather like murals. They are expressive of genuine emotions, even negative ones. Some people find it easier to express emotion through art rather than words, either spoken or written. And it is a non destructive, for the most part anyway, way to do so.
Years ago, before I was a college librarian and then teacher, I worked in bookstores -
My dream job. I have always loved books. They are window to other worlds as well as educational. I have been deeply saddened by the demise of so many bookstores. It is a loss for the community and future generations.
I see the stock market has taken a nosedive. People are noticing that maybe things aren't all wine and roses with either the virus or the economy. I suspect we will be on a roller coaster for some time to come.
"I see the stock market has taken a nosedive."
1,800 plus points dropped off the Dow-Jones does qualify as a bad day on Wall Street.
And given the budget hits that state and local governments are already taking on their tax bases (too often relying on the regressive sales tax and sometimes equally regressive in practice property taxes that hit the middle and working classes hardest) the decision to "Defund the Police" is very likely going to be forced on many towns and cities, whether they wanted that or not.
I think this is the time, if one has a few extra discretionary dollars, to visit a favorite store. Businesses are going to find it tough to get back on their feet. We run the risk of losing a number of them permanently.
(I did visit my Barnes & Noble store today to show them some love.)
"Can a town or city just fire the entire police force? Is it legal?"
Jeffrey ↑↑
"No, at least not in the case of Minneapolis."
I've been debating getting into this one, but I keep running across stories on it. Ran across another one this morning.
City Police Department Disbanded in Camden N.J. in 2013 (NBCNews)
And Crime went DOWN not up (Politico)
I had seen that about Camden NJ before. In their case it was mostly due to corruption. There too the wording is a little deceptive. Yes, the police department was "disbanded", but it wasn't abolished or done away with totally. I think if Minneapolis really wants to get serious about reworking their police department Camden NJ is a good place to study. They have some good ideas.
If a city were to totally do away with a law enforcement presence you will have flight of not only businesses but individual citizens as well. You will lose tax revenue and vital services to the community, creating a "wild west" type of environment.
Part of Minneapolis's problem is the Police Union. They make it difficult to fire those officers who have been cited for offenses.
Huh! The City Council has just reworded a new resolution requiring "transformation" of the MPD. They have also included a time frame and they will include community involvement. It sounds promising, but we'll see. Protesters are marching asking for the resignation of the Police Union president.
"Yes, the police department was 'disbanded', but it wasn't
abolished or done away with totally."
The calls to "defund" the police are likewise a bit deceptive. They're not calling for zeroing out the police budget (not most of them anyway), but rather of cutting those budgets back a bit, especially the expenditures on military-style equipment and training. And spending some of that money on prevention programs rather than on policing the messes after offenses have occurred.
Only 16 new cases and no new deaths in my county from yesterday. That is down quite a bit. I hope it holds. Now many of our businesses are open, although they still don't look like they are at full strength.
Our county announced "phase 3" reopening today. Everything is back open; although there are still restrictions on customer capacities in businesses (50 to 75 percent depending on the type of business), and crowd sizes at public events.
... cutting those budgets back a bit, especially the expenditures on military-style equipment and training.
Didn't that come about because the police complained they were out gunned by drug dealers?
They had two pictures of arson suspects from St. Paul in the paper today, along with their names. One was a Muslim woman. The other a white male.
"Didn't that come about because the police complained they
were out gunned by drug dealers?"
That actually got started by Daryl Gates out in LA after the riots following the not-guilty verdicts for the four cops who beat Rodney King half to death.
However, cops often did latch onto the "outgunned" argument when various jurisdictions began to try to curb their enthusiasm for over-policing their minority neighborhoods.
Tomorrow Trump's scheduled to give a speech at the graduation ceremonies at West Point. Trump's still nursing a grudge over the Secretary of Defense publicly contradicting him about the wisdom of using federal troops to put down civil protests. Also the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs went public with an apology for letting Trump maneuver him into a photo-op in uniform, and he didn't even give Trump a heads-up that the public apology was coming.
So, now Trump's got the opportunity to address a captive audience of graduating Army cadets.
Surely that's gonna work out real well.
Then, next Friday, Trump gives a pubic address in Tulsa on "Juneteenth" a black favored "holiday" that commemorates the Union Army finally making it to Galveston Texas, on the southern coast, and announcing publicly, proclamation read from on the public square, that slavery was ended in Texas; all slaves were freed. Galveston was the last public "holdout" after the South lost the Civil War and June 19, 1865 is considered the date legalized slavery was completely and finally stamped out in the United States.
So Trump's going to Tulsa, the site of the largest massacre of free blacks in American history, to give a speech on race relations on that day.
Yeah, that one's likely to work out real well as well.
Lee: “ 2,574 > 2,380--white-on-white wins by a nose”
And whites are 5 times more numerous. So black on black murder is about 5 times more common per capita than white on white. I’d say that’s a large enough factor for it to be debated.
And EVERYONE knows this already. Even liberals are secretly scared of young black men, for good reason. They just don’t admit it.
"So black on black murder is about 5 times more common per capita
than white on white."
Ah, well, you added that "per capita" this time. First time, you wrote this:
"Way way way most of killings in the us are black on black."
Marcus @ Wed Jun 10, 12:49:00 pm ↑↑
What you wrote the first time wasn't true, as you already knew when you wrote it. (We've been down this road before.) But, you wrote it out anyway. Habit I'd reckon. You really, really want it to be true the way you wrote it the first time and you desires tend to lead you into making the pretense when you think you can slide it past your audience.
In any case….
"Today, the percentage of black people living in poverty is
about two-and-a-half times that of whites (22 percent and
nine percent, respectively, in 2018).
"This disparity in poverty rates means black people are also
disproportionately represented in rates of violent crime."
Quillette
Control for wealth and socio-economic status, make your pick solely from the lower classes, make the comparison again and you'll find that the rate of violent crime among black Americans is roughly equal to the rate of violent crime among white Americans of similar socio-economic stature. (Rich folks hire their killing done for them; they don't generally do their own killing, like they don't generally do their own yard work.)
"Rich folks…" I'll expand that; make that "Affluent folks…" instead.
Most of the recent protests over police brutality were entirely peaceful. Protest locations across America as dots on map. Lot's more places had protests than the relatively few which also had violence.
Essay in TheAtlantic (fairly short for a piece in The Atlantic) says that the protests over racist policing is helping to repair the damage that the Trump Presidency has done to America's image overseas. (No, not the ones with the looting and arson, but the protests that didn't have looting and arson showing up around their edges have helped repair America's image overseas. Or, so it says.)
…are helping…
Essay in ForeignAffairs says, basically, the same thing, or, at least, that the potential is there should the protests achieve results.
Trump backed off on the date for the Tulsa OK speech. I suspect that even his advisors are starting to get the idea that America has finally taken up the cause of trying to create that "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness" thing for all Americans. I think this goes beyond a fad or political correctness of the moment. People are genuinely trying to make an effort to change things.
It will take a truly exceptional turn of events to reverse this downward slide of American reputation and influence. But what has happened in our imperfect, always-correcting nation over the past two weeks is truly exceptional.
Yes.
Lynnette and Lee C.,
Here's a bit of fun. The view from China:
China is Using George Floyd Protests for Propaganda.
Do Yuigur Lives Matter?
No.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette and Lee C.,
I take it neither of you have in fact lived outside the United States. If so, then it makes sense why you have no idea how other countries view the United States. The range of views is wide. In some countries, there is historical anti-Americanism that is always there. In other countries, they view Americans with respect and see them as successful role models.
When I lived in West Germany, back in the 1980s while the Cold War was still going on, anti-Americanism was in fact high in Deutschland. Part of it was cultural and part of it was political. Germans think Americans are uncultured -- uncouth, superficial barbarians. And the political position that they oppose varies from decade to decade. Then it was about placing rockets aimed at the USSR on German soil.
So just forget all of those articles about waxing and waning American reputation abroad. Mostly it's about the waxing and waning of editorial meetings at media outlets.
After seeing the Twin Towers collapse on their TV sets, that night many Chinese could not fall asleep because they were so happy. In China, it was a day of celebration and joy. In school, Chinese are taught to hate Japaneses the most,followed by the United States. In the last few days, pretty much every Chinese person that I've talked to has had a big smile on their face as they mention America burning. They know it's serious, but they can't suppress the sheer joy of seeing America in flames.
So forget about what people in other countries think about the US And Americans. Some like us, some don't. And some would love to see every American man, woman, and child incinerated. That's a reality I learned thirty-five years ago. You two need to start learning that now.
And it has NOTHING to do with Trump. If you think that, you're deluded and you need to do some traveling instead of hunched over your keyboards each day. Having Obama or Trump as president makes zero difference. Haters gonna hate, as they say.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"Trump backed off on the date for the Tulsa OK speech."
I saw that. I'm wondering if we'll see any of his dedicated Trumpkins grumbling about that in near future. Gotta admit I don't know what to expect on that one. They will have noticed it and it will not have made them happy. And yet they may just suck it up and quietly move on; pretend it didn't happen (they won't entirely forget it though).
"I suspect that even his advisors are starting to get the idea
that America has finally taken up the cause…and etc."
I don't know that I'd go quite as far as all that, but I've read several black writers and journalists who're telling us that there's cause for optimism; that "this time is different"; this time there's a scent of progress riding the air that ain't been in the air since the Civil Rights movement of the early 1960s. And that time did make a difference. This time looks likely to make a difference as well.
One of the things they keep saying (among themselves anyway; or, at least, I've read this more than once from black writers) is: "Have you seen all those white people comin' out to march with us?" They seem to take that as a good sign. They think they've made a breakthrough.
All of which means there's something to what you say, even if the whole country ain't moved quite as far as you suggested.
It also means is that the dedicated Trumpkins are fighting a losing battle in their culture war. But they already know that. That's why they no longer accept any of the traditionally respected political limits. Grabbing for it all now, 'cause there'll be no next time.
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"In the last few days, pretty much every Chinese person that
I've talked to has had a big smile on their face as they mention
America burning."
The Chinese you're allowed to talk to probably have a good excuse for thinking that America is burning. You do not.
For someone who claims to not have been following American politics lately, you seem quite thoroughly saturated in the American right-winger fantasy view of American politics--specifically including the "America Burning" fantasy theme that they've been pushing here of late. One thing's for sure. You don't keep finding these YouTube vids you favor on your own; you have a source or set of sources who curate that point of view for you and your favored and followed sources tend towards the reactionary viewpoint.
"I learned thirty-five years ago. You two need to start
learning that now."
No. I definitely do not need to start learning your dated political dogma. Hard enough to keep up with the world as it is. I definitely don't need to have you draggin' me back into the Cold War world you thought you knew thirty-five years ago.
Here's a bit of fun. The view from China:
Thanks, Jeffrey, that was good.
I think it's a given that China will try to use anything they can to show America in a bad light. It's a good diversion. But as the fellow in the video pointed out there is a difference between how America reacts and how China reacts to civil unrest. The reason we knew about George Floyd's death was because someone filmed it and uploaded it to the internet resulting in the officers being charged. Not going to happen in China. The whole reason we can protest is because it is protected behavior. No, not the rioting, looting or arson, but the peaceful demonstration of discontent. This is not allowed in China. Or at least the last time it was tried it led to mass killings by government troops. As the one person responded to Chinese propaganda, "I can't tweet". Before it was deleted.
Is America perfect? Of course not. But there is still hope here that we can and will change. As President Obama pointed out recently, with every generation things have gotten a little bit better. Maybe this generation will bring us even further down that road.
In school, Chinese are taught to hate Japaneses the most,followed by the United States.
That reminds me of that song from South Pacific.
All of which means there's something to what you say, even if the whole country ain't moved quite as far as you suggested.
No, we have a lot of room for improvement. But I also see my neighbor who has a "Black Lives Matter" sign in their yard. You wouldn't have seen that here 5 years ago. Things change.
Lynnette,
Thanks, Jeffrey, that was good.
Sure. I thought you guys might appreciate a little levity. Chris Chappell at China Uncensored is very good at using humor to talk about serious issues.
I think if we can get through the rest of 2020 intact we'll be okay.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
I've been reading some Trumpkin Op-Eds and opinion pieces and I'm picking up something of an underground story developing (even seen references to the development in more mainstream media). The Trumpkins are convincing themselves that Trump's gonna win this fall's election by a fairly comfortable margin. This isn't the belief in Republican circles in and around Washington D.C., but out it Trumpkin territory it's taking hold. From what I'm hearing from my Trumpkin neighbors, they're no different, they're believin' it too. They see no slippage in his support among his "base" nor in their fervor, and they think that'll be enough.
I don't agree, but that's not the point of my mentioning it.
Thing is, if they don't accept that he can lose, they won't accept it when he does lose.
I wasn't going to mention this, but given this story I think I will. I watched some of that speech Trump gave at West Point. I saw the portion where he reached for a water glass to take a drink. He used both hands to pick it up. Normally you pick up a glass with one hand, unless you are afraid that you may spill because you are shaky.
I am not one to make this a campaign issue, like Trump does for his opponents, but he has been around people who have tested positive for Covid-19. He is also, as the article points out, older. As is Joe Biden. If I were Biden I would choose carefully my running mate.
...they won't accept it when he does lose.
Some things they may have to accept.
Jeffrey,
I think if we can get through the rest of 2020 intact we'll be okay.
Well, we have a little way to go yet. Minnesota is looking good on the Covid-19 front so far. But then we are just starting to reopen.
I don't know if you noticed or not, but China has some new cases in Beijing now.
Sometimes surprising things do happen.
Justice Neil Gorsuch, President Donald Trump's first nominee to the Supreme Court, delivered an opinion Monday that will change how more than 7 million LGBTQ individuals will live and work in the United States.
It is a watershed moment from an unlikely author that means gay, lesbian and transgender workers are protected by federal by civil rights law. It is a stunning defeat for judicial conservatives who worked to ensure Gorsuch's nomination and Republicans, including Donald Trump, who stymied President Barack Obama's nominee for the Supreme Court, liberal Merrick Garland in 2016.
The ruling puts Gorsuch in the history books.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, Gorsuch wrote, which bars discrimination "because of sex," also covers claims based on sexual orientation and gender identity
"Sometimes surprising things do happen."
It was a 6-3 decision, which means that it would have been a win for the gays at 5-4 even if Gorsuch had voted the other way. By joining the majority he was able to get the opportunity to write the majority opinion and keep any of the liberals from writing something even more expansive of gay rights than the fairly narrow holding of the opinion that he wrote. (Chief Justice Roberts is known to want opinions that get more than five votes, and he'll negotiate to get them.)
(Chief Justice Roberts is known to want opinions that get more than five votes, and he'll negotiate to get them.)
Interesting. Perhaps that is his way of trying to keep the Supreme Court above politics. Make it look like it is neutral on hot political issues.
Incremental steps are better than nothing. At least for now. If people really want something different they will have to step up to the plate and vote for that change. They didn't do so in enough numbers in 2016 and we got Trump for President and a Republican majority in Congress.
I noticed that the feds have picked up another Minneapolis/St Paul arsonist, this one in his native Colorado. He's white, but it's not clear yet whether his political affiliations are left-wing or right-wing. What's clear is that he wasn't a protester interested in police brutality demonstrations. He came for the arson and looting that he thought he could pull off while the FoxNews crowd was busy blaming his antics on the black protesters.
Also John Bolton tells us in an excerpt published in the Wall Street Journal (via MSN) that Trump almost struck a deal to roll back all of his threatened abd his already imposed tariffs against China in return for China making purchases of American Farm Products, nothing else, just that, to help him with the farm vote in the Midwest in the upcoming elections. Apparently it didn't happen because the Chinese ultimately decided that they could pressure him for even more later--after all, he still needs that help in the upcoming election.
(Bolton isn't gonn be easy on him in that book.)
Lynnette,
One response to that song from South Pacific. To state the obvious, hatred is a natural human emotion. We are not taught to hate. We cannot, through a special kind of socialization, remove hatred and in-group/out-group allegiances from humans.
That feeling you have when you think of Trump is called hatred and you weren't taught that.
One of the main delusions (among many) of Marxists and socialists is the belief that human nature is a blank slate and that we can override human nature through socialization and enculturation. Those twentieth-century experiments, conducted in the USSR and by the CCP, have failed, with a cost of around 100 millions lives.
So yes, in Chinese formal education, the books they read reinforce hatred of Japanese and Americans, but hatred for out-groups already exists there inside them, just as it resides in all of us.
So we can easily hate out-groups. But we can also easily hate individuals, like your hatred of Trump. Sure, you can point to policy issues he supports that you don't like, but it's also about his personality. You just hate him as a person. And that's part of our human nature, too.
From hatred, both for out-groups and individuals, we can then move on to prejudice, which is also part of our genetic heritage. But that's for another time.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Strange to think that I first read Gordon Allport's The Nature of Prejudice almost forty years ago.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lee C.,
In your research, have you seen any reports on the demographic profiles of the protestors, arsonists, and looters? Not what journalists feel, but actual sociological counting.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lee C.,
He came for the arson and the looting ...
Okay, I'm interested. Drop the link if you have it.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"To state the obvious, hatred is a natural human emotion. We
are not taught to hate."
That's just wrong.
To expand on your chosen example: Most Chinese will have never interacted with nor even seen a Japanese nor an American. Without the appropriate state interference, (without having been taught) they would have no basis for hating either one. They wouldn't know to hate either.
Fear is a natural human emotion.
Hatred is rather more complex and can be better thought of as a "state of mind" usually arising out of an emotion, (usually fear) rather than as an emotion (natural or otherwise). It is learned (sometimes first hand) and therefore it can be taught (and often is taught).
Perhaps you should read your Allport book again.
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No. I haven't seen any demographic profiles of the looters and burners.
Lee C.,
Sorry. I can't agree with that. I've lived in probably a dozen countries. Fear and hatred are hard-wired in humans. If you're a Blank Slater, get thee nose into Pinker. but I agree that hatred can be reinforced or directed, but the emotion, complex or not, is part of our nature.
What's funny is that at IBC you were known on the comments pages for your hatred of everyone else. Well, to be accurate, it was really contempt. You had contempt, a subspecies of hate, for everyone you tangled with. Damn funny that you're trying to pass yourself off now as some kind of peaceful protestor. Jeezus, man. I've known hundreds, maybe thousands of commenters via IBC, but you stand out as one those filled with the most hate. I don't mind. But it is damn funny.
Why have you around if you can't do the research we request? Protestors, arsonists, and looters? Same people or what? C'mon, Lee.
And that link? It's a simple request.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"Fear and hatred are hard-wired in humans."
Fear and anger may be hard-wired into humans. Hatred is a state-of-mind, and is more malleable than either.
"I've known hundreds, maybe thousands of commenters via IBC,
but you stand out…"
Your imagination runs away with you. I rather doubt that I ever posted more than five comments on your pages at IBC, if that many. I wasn't a fan of your shallow pretense even then.
Lee C.,
I frequented many blogs, as you know, and you always stood out as the most intolerant, contemptuous commenter. Is it possible that you don't know this basic fact about yourself? You use hatred and contempt of others to invigorate yourself, like a cup of coffee throughout the day. Rage on, my peaceful protestor.
Who knew that Sheriff Lee C. was a peaceful protestor? Not me.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lee C.,
Hatred is a state-of-mind
Indeed, good sir. That would be Lee C's regular state of mind.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"I frequented many blogs, as you know, and you always
stood out…"
Ah, new story, first story didn't work, new story now. But, we do see your agreement on hatred being a state-of-mind. So, that much has been accomplished anyway. Therefore, I have no reason to pursue your new story.
Lee C.,
Hey, I know that, with other guys, you generally view them as mortal combatants. On this blog, a few times a year, I would stop by and each time I'd find you and Petes (and maybe Marcus) engaged in minor terminological disputes in which you would insist on being right and Petes a dumbass. It was strange. Months later, I stop back and you two were still arguing. "Are they still going on about that?" I'd wonder. Do you even remember what those arguments were about? Wasn't there something about astronomy?
Anyway, I notice that with Lynnette you're a gentleman, and I commend you on that. Yes, you guys mostly agree, but you also share lots of good information with each other and I can see that you really listen to what she has to say.
So I tip my hat to you for being a good guy with her.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Maybe John Roberts is the real deal.
"We do not decide whether DACA or its rescission are sound policies," Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. "'The wisdom' of those decisions 'is none of our concern.' We address only whether the agency complied with the procedural requirement that it provide a reasoned explanation for its action."
If the court will judge based on reason then maybe justice will have a fighting chance against an unreasonable man like Donald Trump.
I noticed that the feds have picked up another Minneapolis/St Paul arsonist, this one in his native Colorado. He's white, but it's not clear yet whether his political affiliations are left-wing or right-wing.
So far the people they have found, or are looking for, are mainly white when it comes to the arson.
(Bolton isn't gonn be easy on him in that book.)
Nope. And he and his publisher are not backing down.
That feeling you have when you think of Trump is called hatred and you weren't taught that.
No, here I have to beg to differ, the feeling I have for Trump runs more along the lines of disgust. Hatred implies I would physically want to harm him. That is not the case. I would prefer to see a just resolution to his term as President. That is, many voters made a mistake, either intentionally or no, in voting for him. I would like to see them realize that mistake and rectify it. Yes, even those who agree with his policies. Because what we are seeing from Trump goes deeper than just policy, it goes to the heart of our democracy.
We must allow for honest dissent and criticism. That is what keeps us from erring too far to the right or left. That is what keeps us from becoming Russia or North Korea. We are seeing too much suppression of dissent by Trump. In short he really is not upholding the Constitution. He should be fired for failing to adhere to the oath of office he took.
To state the obvious, hatred is a natural human emotion. We are not taught to hate.
I have a book for you. "Rising out of Hatred": by Eli Saslow. It's a very interesting read if you have some time.
Wtb this latest shooting in Atlanta? Now they’re charging the cop w murder! Wtf is that about?
I saw the whole video. First of all the cops were nothing but polite to begin with until the perp went ballistic. Then the perp went ahead and struggled w the cops, tried to brat on them, got into a car and hit the police cruiser, got out and fought w the cop, a taser was dropped, the perp picked it up and ran and then turned around and pointed the taser at the cops face. The cop then shot him.
1. The cop had his gun out for several minutes during all of this and it seems to me resisted firing for a long time, urging the perp to just lay down.
2. Once the perp turned around w the weapon he’d stolen from the cop, which was a taser, how is the cop to know for sure it’s the taser that’s being pulled on him and not a gun the perp could have had hidden?
3. Even if it was only the taser, is the cop obliged to allow himself to get tased and knocked out? What if the perp had then just gone up to the incapacitated cop and taken his real gun and executed him?
This cop went over and above NOT to shoot and only did so when he had a weapon pulled on him, as likely his training suggests he’s supposed to do. And you put the man in lockup and charge him with murder?
Good luck finding qualified people willing to try to police America...
Btw Lee, have you knelt to any negroes... sorry Afro America...sorry African Americ...sorry black Ame... sorry POC:s lately?
Bc I hear now that police and the national guard and the like are more or less obligated to take the knee and bow down to the blacks, and that some folks take it to washing the feet of black pastors. It seems a thing.
Imo a man willingly kneels before God or maybe a King he swears fealty to. Otherwise kneeling is a humiliating form of submission in the face of an opponent who bested you. That’s the way kneeling has worked all through the ages.
And now whites are kneeling before blacks, not just whites but cops and soldiers too, in the USA.
I’m curious, what do you make of that? And I’d like to know: have you taken a knee too?
"Then the perp went ahead and struggled w the cops, tried to
brat on them, got into a car and hit the police cruiser, got out and
fought w the cop, a taser was dropped…"
I'm not sure about the usage of "brat" as a verb, but otherwise you appear to be describing a video I've seen of a somewhat similar incident in which the white perp was not shot.
Jeffrey, would you take the knee in front of black Americans because a white sonofabitch cop stood on the neck of a negro this one time?
I mean we all are prolly much in agreement here that that bastard power trip asshole of a cop who stood for 9 minutes on Floyd’s neck is a murderer, and he’s also up for a murder charge.
But I don’t really get it from there to why whites folks who never stood on some negroes neck suddenly should take the knee in submission before the blacks.
"What if the perp had…"
American cops are not allowed to shoot people based on "what if…". It's a rule.
Lee
“I'm not sure about the usage of "brat" as a verb, but otherwise you appear to be describing a video I've seen of a somewhat similar incident in which the white perp was not shot.”
Well “brat” was auto spell and should’ve read “beat”.
In them there cases the white guy was not shot did he also steal a weapon from one of the officers, then ran and then while in flight turn and fire the weapon back at the police?
Please link to any of them cases then.
Lee:
“ American cops are not allowed to shoot people based on "what if…". It's a rule.”
So in your opinion that cop murdered that innocent Birdwatcher and now the cop deserves life in jail, or even the death sentence as that is an option in New Mexico?
You think that’s fair?
Lee, have you knelt?
"Wtb this latest shooting in Atlanta?"
"…and now the cop deserves life in jail, or even
the death sentence as that is an option in New Mexico?"
Atlanta isn't in New Mexico.
Marcus,
I take a knee for no one.
Most of the action around the George Floyd case is a low hustle. Honest African American commentators agree.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette,
Thanks for the book suggestion. I'll add to my list called White Pride and Cracker Power.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
In what's gotta count as another major reversal of fortunes for the Trump Campaign team, Rudy Guiliani has now been assigned with (no, the assignment of more duties to Guiliani is not, in and of itself, a reversal of fortunes for the Trump Campaign organization), anyway… Guiliani has been assigned the task of getting Trump more debates with Joe Biden.
Just six months ago Trump announced he wouldn't agree to any debates with Biden.
Now he wants more than the customary three debates; he wants them to start earlier; and he wants veto powers over the moderators. And Rudy Guiliani is currently in charge of the effort to get those wants filled for him. FoxNews
This is called "running scared".
Marcus,
And all the protest theater around the George Floyd case is really, really bad theater. Virtue signaling up the wazoo and cheap histrionics.
Most of them are back in their apartments with the remote in their hand, looking for something to watch. Effing sad.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
Lynnette and Lee C.,
I wouldn't be surprised if the arsonists turn out to be mostly white Americans. At least they possess skills, while the African Americans top out at looting.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
"African Americans top out at looting."
So… Who here still believes his story about having African American family?
Lee C.,
Persona, remember?
You're a bit slow today, Lee.
Jeffrey -- Ningbo, China
*
I'll add to my list called White Pride and Cracker Power.
Lol! Now those are the people who really should read it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the arsonists turn out to be mostly white Americans.
Actually the one that was in the paper today was African-American. Most of the arsonists that have been arrested have also been from Minnesota. There are exceptions to that though.
This is called "running scared".
Be afraid, be very afraid.
The police detective who shot Breonna Taylor to death in her bed in Louisville, Kentucky, back in March, has been fired. MSN Looks like charges are coming real soon.
That whole thing was very weird. Not only were the police showing a gross use of unnecessary force, but also a level of incompetence that should have gotten them fired as a matter of course.
It looks like Barr has not been too successful in his effort to get rid of US Attorney Berman of the third district of New York. He isn't going gently into that good night. Kudos to him.
It looks like all of the lemmings are gathering in Tulsa today to step off that cliff. Well, maybe they won't, but they may be shoving others in their communities off.
Rabbits, nasty creatures. The should be outlawed. I spent yesterday afternoon putting up a fence, which I had hoped to avoid doing. I may still have to replant some things.
"…the lemmings are gathering in Tulsa today…"
Maybe we'll get lucky and there won't be an outbreak. Trumpkins are unpleasant enough when they're feeling good. And they don't improve even a little bit when they're sickly. On top of which, they can spread it.
NBCNews: Black folks ain't buyin' the tale that Tulsa on Juneteenth was chosen for the "reboot" of Trump's 2020 campaign by accident. Too many of such supposed coincidences have occurred too regularly throughout Trump's Presidency for them to believe it's at all coincidental.
(Like picking Jacksonville, Florida on the site and the 60th anniversary date of "Axe Handle Day"--the Klan's brutal 1960 counter-attack against Civil Rights protests in northern Florida, as the date and place he would accept the GOP nomination for his reëlection campaign.)
Judge Royce C. Lamberth, federal district judge for the D.C. Circuit has this afternoon rejected the Trump administration's petition to block publication of John Bolton's new book, "The Room Where it Happened". NewYorkTimes I expect the Trump administration will attempt an emergency appeal--perhaps bypassing the Court of Appeals and plead directly to the Supreme Trumpkins.
"It looks like Barr has not been too successful in his effort to
get rid of US Attorney Berman of the third district of New York."
You might wanna look at that one a second time. Barr has successfully prevailed upon Trump to fire Berman. The announcement came this afternoon. (Barr was allowed the privilege of making the announcement.). NewYorkTimes
Hah! I guess it's well over than a year since I've glanced at these pages. And ole' Lee is still here, bein' his incorrigible passive agressive self. Jeffrey, you certainly got his number in your post of Jun 10, 08:53:00 am. Lee's got a screw loose.
Witness his inability to grapple with crime statistics when confronted by Marcus. But then he's always had trouble with figgers. You put me in mind that Lee swore blind that Wikipedia's entry on Mathematical Fallacies was wrong. A page that gets 100,000 views a year and has thousands of edits. And Lee is the only person who spotted the problem. He never did get from step 3 to step 4 of that division by zero argument. I can easily understand someone bein' dumb enough to not get it. After all, it probably requires basic secondary school algebra, such as a 12-year-old might grasp. But to not understand it and still claim to spot a flaw that half a million viewers didn't -- that needs a breathtaking level of arrogance. Which pretty much sums up ole' Lee.
"…passive agressive self." [sic]
Still borrowing my lines I see. Seem's nothin's changed in your nature.
(Oh, and you might wanna actually learn what "passive-aggressive" actually means while you're takin' the time. I tend to go for openly aggressive when aggressive is called for. Don't want clowns like you to miss it or mistake it.)
New twist on the Geoffrey Berman situation. Trump says, in public, that he didn't fire Berman. "I'm not involved." says Trump. Berman resigned anyway after it was announced that his replacement would be his deputy U.S. Attorney, one Audrey Strauss, instead of the non-prosecutor political appointee that Barr had originally wanted to place in that position. ABCNews
(Seems Berman decided to lock in what little win he could get before they figured out they'd offered way too much there. Still gonna be a bunch of noise generated over Trump hanging Barr out there on his own. Probably enough noise there to keep them from rethinking the situation and firing Strauss now, which would be their next move if they thought they could get away with it.)
And, back in Tulsa, the Trump Campaign had leased a 40,000 person capacity "overflow" space right next to their 19,000 capacity arena. Didn't need the overflow space. Didn't fill the arena. They had scheduled a Trump appearance in the overflow area to address the larger crowd they expected. Trump didn't bother to show up for that, went straight to the not-full arena.
Although, according to CBSNews, the Trump Campaign did set up steel railed chutes to funnel what crowd they did get into a tight pack so's they could get some campaign vids and photos showing a packed crowd.
A so far non violent anti-Trump protest in Los Angeles.
Barr has successfully prevailed upon Trump to fire Berman.
I suspect that Trump was behind the removal of Berman, whether it was a resignation or a firing.
Trump says, in public, that he didn't fire Berman.
Oh, yeah, right.
FoxNews Sunday, host Chris Wallace, just said that Trump's Tulsa venue was only ⅔ full last night.
It being FoxNews, I think we can safely assume that Wallace didn't round down nor undercount the audience.
The pictures they were showing on the news showed an arena maybe a third full on the upper deck. There were a lot of no shows.
Now, the interesting question is "why"? Was it that Trump supporters are showing some kind of responsible behavior with regards to possibly spreading the virus if they went and became infected? Or is there really less support for Trump than the polls suggest? Or possibly a combination of both?
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