Lee suggested that I do a post about the civil rights movement in the United States, given the recent events in Charlottesville, Virginia, and our discussion about them in the comments section. I pointed out that I did not know enough of what transpired during the 1960's to give a good account. So on his recommendation I went searching for a PBS documentary which described the actions of a group of activists called the Freedom Riders. What they did was challenge the idea, and practice, of segregation in the Deep South. In doing so they also stood up for one of the basic tenets of the United States Constitution, that all men are created equal. I, of course, believe that there should be a mention of women in that line, but that is a post for another day.
What the documentary shows is not just the courage of the Freedom Riders, but the importance of the involvement of the government, on both a national and a local level, in acting as a stabilizing factor. If there is no moral leadership there can be no tamping down of bigotry or racial division within our country.
This documentary is quite long, containing film from actual events and interviews with people who were there. But it is very good.
I take it you finished the series then. More than fifty years later, and they're back again and they've got the Big Orange One sitting in the White House.
But, we survived them the last time around; we'll survive them this time too. There are less of them now, and more of the rest of us. They're making their last desperate stand for real relevance this time, and they'll fail. They'll never die out entirely (tribalism was bred into man at the primitive level), but this is gonna be the last time they can ever really convince themselves they've got a shot at taking back power in this country, so they're gonna take a desperate ‘all-in’ shot at it this time.
I took a look too. Ran a word search for ‘Trump’; turns out his name brings up one thread, which leads to a few more threads but not many (not even one of which was then remotely connected to Charlottesville (may have changed since, but, if so, there'll be dates included), so that doesn't back up your point either), and they seemed to not quite despise him after all, not in general. But then again, I may have not been motivate to make as diligent a search as you were disposed to make.
Quaere then: How many of them who seem to ‘despise’ Trump did you actually find scattered across those threads? How many?
Jack Posobiec, one of the right-wing organizers of this coming weekend's schedule of nine (9) separate right-winger marches, has attempted to call the whole thing off, ostensibly because of threats from what he calls ‘alt left terrorists’. link It's not clear to me that he has the status to call those off now that the ball is rolling; they may just go ahead without him, but I guess we'll see.
"Russian President Vladimir Putin is enjoying rising popularity among Republicans according to a new poll from the Pew Research Center. The poll found that the share of Republicans expressing confidence in Putin doubled to 34 percent from 17 percent in 2015, when Donald Trump launched a campaign for the White House that was seen as friendly toward Moscow. “‘We’ve seen quite a shift on the side of Republicans, with Republicans now being much more favorable toward Russia,’…the shift was ‘quite significant.’" Politico.com
I'm gonna be typin' on an iPad for the next while, so I won't be havin' time to entertain Chumpy's ravings. If it's any consolation to y'all I no longer think there could have been any moderate right wingers at the Charlotsville ruckus. Had there been, they would have been at fault for the company they kept. But there wasn't. It was shitbags through and through. I still think it was the lefties who kicked things off.
Anyway, that's all yer gettin' tonight. I got a long drive in the mornin' to visit some Catholics in Alabama.
Read that one carefully to understand why the guy was cut up. That's your peaceful counter protesters for you. making housecalls is one of their most favored tactics back here too. Preferably many on one, often against women, no concern if children are present.
"That's your peaceful counter protesters for you."
I rather doubt that. You may not be aware of this, but Vermont is a long way from Virginia. The United States is BIG compared the cramped environs you're used to. (Didn't call the cops nor seek medical aid? Really now Marcus, even you should see that he's hiding what really got him stabbed; doesn't want it investigated.)
"…so I won't be havin' time to entertain Chumpy's ravings."
Not to worry. I can remind everybody again later. Maybe tell them where the photo you lied about really came from next time. (Cut and paste, cut and paste; nothin’ to it.)
The self-proclaimed victim in Marcus' tale of woe above, one Sam Wormer, has now contradicted his earlier claim that it was ‘Antifa’ activists who stabbed him and he now claims to believe he was actually stabbed by persons affiliated with the ‘far right’ as he labels them. Snopes.Com My guess is there will be further updates if Marcus cares to follow the story for us.
I presume the ones with the pink shields and helmets are the counter-demonstrators. Going with that assumption, the only gas mask I see is on a photographer (who also has on a helmet; a perhaps wise precaution for a journalist in the face of neo-fascists). So, the counter-demonstrators have shields and helmets, defensive protection both (as would be a gas mask if they were using them). The only weapons I see are in the hands of the white supremacist, neo-fascists facing them.
I'm gonna go with the notion that the folks who brought weapons, the ones who have their weapons out and at the ready, are most likely the folks who started using them.
Petes on the other hand has his faith that this is not so.
Oh, wait, there is one guy on the counter-demonstrators side with a club (towards the right side of the cluster of pink shields). But, he's not in the front ranks of the pinkies.
The weapons on the white supremacist side are numerous, and more importantly, they are in the front ranks of white supremacist side, and held at the ready. So, I'm still gonna go with the notion that those brandishing their weapons in their front ranks are most likely the ones who started using their weapons.
Lee: "The self-proclaimed victim in Marcus' tale of woe above, one Sam Wormer, has now contradicted his earlier claim that it was ‘Antifa’ activists who stabbed him and he now claims to believe he was actually stabbed by persons affiliated with the ‘far right’ as he labels them."
A conversion under the gallows is what we usually call something like that. He was clearly not saying anything along those lines when he first spoke out. It was quite clear who he saw as the likely culprits.
"It was quite clear who he saw as the likely culprits."
Perhaps you should re-read the part where he claims that the folks at bigleaguepolitics.com supplied that clarity (no doubt for your benefit, and for the benefit of your fellow travelers) as an addition to what he actually told them.
I have no idea who attacked him. I suppose I believe he was attacked because I don't think anyone would gash himself that bad for publicity alone.
But what I do know is in his own tweet, before any newspaper got hold of the story, he blamed "social justice" a term not often used for anything but leftists:
Before that he had, feeling attacked by leftists online made this comment:
"Wow i really cant believe what a neo nazi i am rn. [...]"
So clearly before any attaack he felt unjustly jumped on from leftists and after he felt he was attacked by so called SWJ:s. He didn't mention AAntifa, I'll grant you that.
But to go from there to this being a false flag by rightwing groups, we'll that's a stretch. I can't see him saying that for any other reason than to get himself out of the limelight, away from further attacks and to distance himself from anything rightwing.
Even though he himself wasn't even rightwing he committed the crime of standing up for a guy who had been at that rightwing rally, he paid a price and he decided it was not a price he wanted to pay for sticking up for a guy whose ideas he doesn't even share. So he changed his story accordingly.
A conversion under the gallows. That's my take on it. Do you really find that unlikely?
Petes will tell you that a gallows conversion is considered valid. The other part of the saying is that the prospect of a hanging at sunrise concentrates the mind.
Also making "house calls" against political opponents is a fairly typical Antifa tactic. It could be that it's different in the US but it is a group/movement with the same flag over there as here and I think the tactics may be similar.
Here, typical Nazi violence is a group of nazis out drinking (or doing drugs, hardcore nazis don't drink because Hitler didn't but they do do other drugs) and they get into a fight or they see someone they hate, a gay, a black person, and they pounce. They can be extremely dangerous but it's usually at the spur of the moment and not really pre planned.
Antifa are usually more into looking up where someone lives and making a house call. Attacking as a gang when the target is alone. Pre planned. Oftentimes not even attacking the person but hitting their door with an axe or tossing a smoke grenade through a window or something. Scare tactics - we know where you live, back down or else sorta stuff.
Again, could always be exceptions and also could be that in the US it's different, but an attack like the one described bears the hallmarks of Antifa as far as I see it.
My main point is, they are not nearly the innocent counter protestors who would never start violence that you seem to think (not that I think you actually think it, you just run with it because it suits the narrative you've adopted).
Come to think on it, he's been lying even more than usual here of late; must have something to do with faith. Whatever it has to do with, this is probably not the time to cite Petes as an authority on anything.
"…you just run with it because it suits the narrative you've adopted…"
It's your narrative that you're running with, not mine. I've never said they were innocents, and I have said I was most definitely not going to try to justify the ones who were carrying weapons.
We have a big Nazi ddebate going on here in Sweden right now. We have a yearly book fair where writers congregate in Gothenburg each year. For the past two years a news paper called Nya Tider (that I have never read because it's a paper paper you have to subscribe to) which is called anything from rightwing to fascist to even nazi has attended. This causes a yearly shitstorm where some writers say they have to attend because not attending would give the fascists a win, and others boycotting because giving fascists room means validating their opinions. It's kind of a storm in the writer's own little duck pond but it makes the papers.
THIS year the Nordic Resistance Movement, an actual self proclaimed Nazi organisation have sough and gotten permission for a street rally at the same time as that book fair and in the vincinity. They are a fringe group, a couple hundred strong maybe a thousand even, but they are quite organised.
We have hate speech laws so our freedom of speech is not what it is in the US. But our freedom to hold a rally is probably stronger here, at least in practice. So they sought a permit to march and they got it.
The police chief in Gothenburg was asked how they could get that because one of only three things the police can point to for not allowing a rally is violence. The police chief answered that they do expect riots and violence, but not from the demonstrating nazis, but from countre protestors, and they can't deny the right to assembly because other factions get violent.
It's in swedish but you can either take my word or use Googre Translate:
I said in practice. There's no chance the police in Sweden would have let the violence get out of hand like in Charlottesville. They would have been in the know of about how many there were on either side and had the manpower to separate them and they would have done so too. There would have been skirmishes on the outskirts maybe, but the rally with permission would have been held within a cordon of police.
Some on your right seems to suggest Charlottesville was a "trap", that the police there deliberatly saw to it the two sides met with inevitable clashes to give the authorities a reason to declare unlawful assembly and shut it down. Myself I lean more towards the police in the US not being as used to street rallies as the police in Europe is, and they fucked it up.
Terror attack by van in Barcelona, about 15 dead. Seems neither me nor Zeyad won our internal bet as to where the next such attack would take place. A morbid thing to bet on anyway I guess, call it a draw Z?
"Some on your right seems to suggest Charlottesville was a ‘trap’…"
The white supremacists brought their own security, a group known as the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia, thirty-two men strong, three of the thirty-two here (not to mention that a lot of the neo-Nazis were carrying pistols). The Governor of Pennsylvania has said they were slow to move in because they had to consider the possibility of a firefight breaking out between the cops and the National Guard and the right-wingers' private militia. (Luckily the militia leaders had actually decided that the white supremacists were ‘nuts’ and were looking for a fight, and the militia leaders weren't interested in backing them up on that one, but the authorities didn't know that.)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ "Where do you stand on this "removal of statues"-thing?"
Statues to the Confederacy are an anachronism and an embarrassment, and it's past time for them to come down.
You probably need to check out the reactions of his Congressional Republicans before you claim Trump scored at all. He kept his followers from the Radio-Right-Wing audience happy. But offended damn near everybody else.
Lee: "Statues to the Confederacy are an anachronism and an embarrassment, and it's past time for them to come down."
So Jefferson who owned slaves, and Washington who owned slaves, should their history also be erased? Maybe the George Washington Bridge in NYC should be blown up?
If not: why not? He owned slaves. George Washington did.
Who draws the line for what parts of history (modern book burning) should be torn down or blown up? You Lee? Antifa? BLM? SPLC? Who?
Maybe you should go all around the USA and check every street-name and make sure they are all retacted and made new to include gays, trannies, feminists, blacks, hispanics, muslims, hindus, bhuddists, rednecks (no not them), queers, and whatnot. History? Fuck that right? We're progressives now. You could do that every year, because there's a new alphabeth of "victims" about every year.
"You also had some very fine people on both sides."
Nope! Wrong! ‘Very fine people’ don't march in Virginia under Nazi banners alongside people chanting ‘blood and soil’ and ‘the Jews will not replace us’ nor do they march alongside robed Klansmen. That don't happen.
"He owned slaves. George Washington did."
Yes, he did. He had them freed upon the death of his wife Martha (who had outlived him). He had her inheritance from him tied up so that the slaves went free at her death. This allows folks to believe that he'd have outlawed slavery if it had been up to him, if that's what they want to believe. One thing he did not do is engage in an armed insurrection against the American government to preserve the institution of slavery. Robert E. Lee did that and helped kill 700,000 Americans out of a population of around 30 million.
Jefferson was a bad money manager and perennially in debt and died deeply in debt. Virginia had a statue on the books that a man in debt could not free his slaves--the manumission was invalid. Jefferson could not legally free his slaves. Jefferson did sponsor a federal law intended to prevent slavery from spreading beyond the few Southern States where it was already legal--no new slave states nor slave territories (he was not successful in getting it passed into law, but he did make the effort). This allows persons who want to believe to believe that Jefferson wasn't really supportive of slavery either. Also Jefferson did not engage in an armed insurrection against the United States…etc.…etc.
Lee: "Nope! Wrong! ‘Very fine people’ don't march in Virginia under Nazi banners alongside people chanting ‘blood and soil’ and ‘the Jews will not replace us’ nor do they march alongside robed Klansmen. That don't happen."
Well....
Well...
Fuck!
I do have a weak argument there. I DID think the so called Alt Right was a new thing, a movement in line with my own thoughts. And I haven't completely given up on Spencer and his likes just yet.
But, hell, when I see the footage from Charlotte. Even when I see the rightists videos. I see a whole lotta nazis and clansmen and plain goons.
I didn't want to see that. I really hoped for a new american led rightist movement that I could get behind, and one that could give us rightists in Europe more hope.
But.....
Fuck...
I hate to say it..
It was a gaggle of demented skinhaters that made up the bulk of the rally participants in Charlottesville. And IF there were sound rightists there they are now tainted by the fucking degenerates they associated with.
It does pain me to say this.... but hell It's fucking obvious now.
(and the reason I didn't say this before Is I held a hope, but now I have watched the videos of even the rightists, not just the contra-rightists, and there's just no denying it.)
THAT SAID! It was STILL Antifa that initiated the violence!
Thing is Lee, there never even should have been a fight between them two sides, which was always gonna go violent regardless of which side "started" it.
The URA rally had a LEGAL right to hold an assembly. They sought it for Lee Park, got it, then it got overturned, then the ACLU helped them get it back. They had the right under the law to hold a rally. It's the duty of the state to ensure that. The tool to do so is police.
The so called counter protestors did NOT have a legal right to rally, because they never appplied for a permit to do so. They have a right to be in a public street anyway, but not to disrupt a lawful assembly by force.
Why the FUCK would the rightists mess up their rightful assembly only to beat up on a few Antifa?
C'mon Lee, you KNOW that is not what happened. I'm so sick of "debating" someone whose willfully lying here.
"The URA rally had a LEGAL right to hold an assembly. *** "The so called counter protestors did NOT have a legal right to rally, because they never appplied for a permit to do so."
At some point you're gonna havta learn to not believe Shorthands when he says things. He is an apparently compulsive and quite probably pathological liar.
First: The counter-protestors did have not just one, but two permits for their rally (covering both parks) Second: The white supremacists had a permit, to march and to rally. By design marches and rallies are intended and expect to draw an audience. The audience does not need a separate permit, they're covered under the original permit as an expected, even a sought after, consequential gathering. Demonstrators who seek to demonstrate in public for the purpose of being seen by an audience cannot be heard to complain that the audience did not have their own separate permit. They are covered by the original permit and the intent of those who sought that permit to be noticed by a public audience. (Whether or not the audience is favorable or unfavorable to the agenda of the original permit seekers, whether or not the audience is impromptu or organized) four pinnocios
Lee: "He had them freed upon the death of his wife Martha (who had outlived him). He had her inheritance from him tied up so that the slaves went free at her death. This allows folks to believe that he'd have outlawed slavery if it had been up to him, if that's what they want to believe."
Doesn't matter. They're gonna come for him next. Well maybe not "next" but soon enough.
You think a white former slave owner's gonna get a pass on account of him freeing some slaves? Forget that.
You silly little 'ol ethnomasochistic li'l boy still think this is 'bout history. Oh, how deluded ya'll are.
The ONLY good thing you've got goin' Lee is you're old enough that probably you won't live to see the results of your folly.
"I'm so sick of "debating" someone whose willfully lying here."
So, that's what you got in opposition to the evidence? Some blather about how I'm supposedly willfully lying, blather without either evidence or argument to support it? That's all ya got.
"They cannot have been at the same space. That would be insane."
Maybe it'll soak in a second time. Let's try that again.
By design marches and rallies are intended and expect to draw an audience. The audience does not need a separate permit, they're covered under the original permit as an expected, even a sought after, consequential gathering. Demonstrators who seek to demonstrate in public for the purpose of being seen by an audience will not be heard to complain that the audience did not have their own separate permit. The audience is covered by the original permit and the intent of those who sought that permit to be noticed by a public audience. (Whether or not the audience is favorable or unfavorable to the agenda of the original permit seekers, whether or not the audience is organized) Even though the counter-protesters did take out a permit, that was extraneous; they did not need one; they were covered by the original permit which sought to generate a public audience.
One more time for the dense drunk. The white supremacists brought their own armed security. The governor of Virginia has said out loud in public that they were none too eager to get a shooting war going with that private militia. Said it several times, at least there was ‘no shooting’ in spite of all the armed white supremacists.
That's pretty tasteless, Chumpy, but I guess you're a tasteless kinda person.
I see Shorthands' favourite fake news channel has, for two nights in a row, been rolling out commentators to speculate that Shorthands is actually and literally unhinged. So, CNN has finally jumped the shark and outfoxed Fox.
"So, CNN has finally jumped the shark and outfoxed Fox."
More likely they've merely jumped the gun.
"The President has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate in order to be successful." Senator Bob Corker (Republican, Tennessee)
Corker has been, up ‘til now, a fairly consistent supporter for Shorthands.
The opposites of stability and competence are ‘unstable’ and ‘incompetent’, and this is from a guy that was on Shorthands' good list up ‘til now. So, CNN has probably just moved into that space a little earlier than some others. (I'm given to understand, by the way, that the American Psychiatric Association is quietly debating a new resolution overturning their current blanket rule against psychiatrists offering opinions on the mental state of persons they have not personally examined. That rule was put in place after Senator Goldwater's run for the Presidency, when several shrinks made their evaluations of him public. The professional association declared that to be malpractice in the case of issuing opinions on folks they'd not personally sat down with. It's informally called ‘The Goldwater Rule’. They're thinking about suspending that rule now that they're looking at Shorthands performances. Or so I hear tell. Probably won't do it, but they're supposedly discussing it.)
CNN just had yet another person on saying Trump should be sectioned. I presume that means the same in the USA as Europe. Nope, they are not talking about Trump "lacking stability". They clearly are trying to get a meme going here. The same way Big Ears was a foreign born Muslim to his less discerning opponents, Trump will now be a raving nutter.
And what about that Missouri senator calling for Trump to be assassinated? If she stays in her job it will be proof positive that the same rules don't apply to Preznit Shorthands as would certainly have applied to Preznit Big Ears.
Which state senator ever called for Obama to be assassinated?
(I think, technically, she just wrote that she ‘wished’, which is not the same as ‘calling for’. Probably just enough of a distinction to get her warned by the Secret Service but not charged.)
Hmmm. Seems the actual wording of the (now deleted) Facebook comment was "I hope Trump is assassinated". Probably doesn't qualify as a ‘call for’ his assassination, and will get her a visit from the Secret Service, but obviously it's not an actual threat against his life, which would be illegal--free speech or no, we got a law against issuing threats against the President. So, we need the name of that state senator who supposedly ‘called for’ Obama to be assassinated in order to compare outcomes here.
I might have to break down and get a smart phone. It could work as backup for my laptop. So I have my computer in the computer hospital being diagnosed and hopefully healed. We shall see. I got the black screen of death. But it's gonna take two days, so I won't be around for a bit. I am on my computer at work at the moment...
So while I have a minute I will try to catch up on comments.
It was a gaggle of demented skinhaters that made up the bulk of the rally participants in Charlottesville. And IF there were sound rightists there they are now tainted by the fucking degenerates they associated with.
Yes, just as I suspected, you are no more Nazi than am I. I also suspect you are not really a bigot.
I see Shorthands' favourite fake news channel has, for two nights in a row, been rolling out commentators to speculate that Shorthands is actually and literally unhinged. So, CNN has finally jumped the shark and outfoxed Fox.
Oh no, that speculation has been around for some time now. They are just more open about it now.
Seriously though, Petes, do you really believe his behavior to be normal?
I have already made known that I am speculating that he has the beginning stages of dementia.
I saw that on CNN. It's probably too little too late. I suspect that even members of Congress are fed up with Trump. Whether or not he is really crazy, demented or just clueless, he has gone a long way to sew divisions in the US to the point of the extremists feeling emboldened to rally.
What person refuses to even talk to the President of the Unites States? The mother of the woman killed in Charlottesville, that's who. Frankly I don't blame her. Even if Trump is different in private, his views in public are not desirable.
Steve Bannon's already back at Breitbart as Executive Chairman. TheHill He claims to be preparing to ‘go to war for the Trump agenda’. This may mean excoriating Trump for abandoning the Breitbart agenda.
"Yes, just as I suspected, you are no more Nazi than am I."
The major difference between Marcus' philosophies and those of the classical Nazi are that the Nazi were hostile primarily to Jews, whereas Marcus is (for now) primarily hostile to Arabs and Muslims.
Also he knows that the Nazi get universally bad press. His objection to the ‘sound rightists’ participation in the Charlottesville rallies seems to center on the fact that they were utterly stupid to associate themselves with the ‘degenerates’, i.e. folks who don't have the basic common sense to not fly Nazi flags in public.
I'm not sure these differences are as fundamental as you seem to believe.
Lee: "The major difference between Marcus' philosophies and those of the classical Nazi are that the Nazi were hostile primarily to Jews, whereas Marcus is (for now) primarily hostile to Arabs and Muslims."
That's because it's mostly arab and central asian muslims who have flooded into Sweden lately. If it had been Africans I wuld have had my main beef with them. If it had been chinese I would have had my main beef with them.
That said, there are certain aspects of muslim arabs I find more troublesome, you can look to Barcelona for the latest example.
But mainly I just want Sweden to remain Sweden, a country for swedes. That is my main concern. On a larger scale I feel the same for Europe.
I have NO problem with arabs in Arabia. In fact I think people like you and your idol Obama or your other idol Hillary should stop bombing them and wrecking their homelands.
Lee: "Also he knows that the Nazi get universally bad press. His objection to the ‘sound rightists’ participation in the Charlottesville rallies seems to center on the fact that they were utterly stupid to associate themselves with the ‘degenerates’, i.e. folks who don't have the basic common sense to not fly Nazi flags in public."
That would be more or less correct. I do think that sane people on the right with isolationaist viewpoints, even folks with a racial agenda, should try to refrain from being seen connected to anything like the KKK or Nazism.
We certainly don't need brownshirts, we need educated and smart men and women who can influence society and move it in a direction towards increased sanity.
"…or your other idol Hillary should stop bombing them…"
Obama turned out to be a disappointment in many respects, but an over-eagerness to bomb Arabs wasn't one of them. Mostly he went in for drone shots on specific and identified al-Qaeda and Da‘esh targets. He did let the Brits and the French talk him into supporting the intervention they led in Libya, but they were going in either way, whether he stepped up to support them or not. Your favored fella, Trump, however, has taken to bombing with a passion equal to anything I could have feared from Hillary. (I never was over fond of her anyway. About the only good thing I've ever had occasion to say about Hillary was that I was favorably impressed with her work ethic when she was Secretary of State. The lack of success was not her fault, it being Obama's policies she worked to implement, but I was impressed with her work ethic; she put her shoulder to the wheel.)
I never really understood how moslems incinerated to death by white phosporous in Fallujah is a good thing, but protesting moslems overtaking cities in Sweden is a bad thing.
You do have some Orwellian shit goin' on Lee. For sure. War is Peace, etc...
Me? I would have just let arabs in Arabia go on about their business and if they had stumbled across democracy then great, otherwise let them live as they choose. Not here though, not in Malmö, not in Sweden.
Lee: "Your favored fella, Trump, however, has taken to bombing with a passion equal to anything I could have feared from Hillary."
I'm actually lukewarm on Trump. I was all for him because the alternative was that old vampire Hillary. Now, not an ardent supporter by any means. Guy even fired Bannon for christs sake.
He does do bombings, but he inherited a war and at least he has the right focus, bombing ISIS. That's an improvement from your previous arming-terrorists-against-Assad stance.
His childish twittering about North Korea, on the other hand, has me cringing. And I am certainly NOT a North Korea supporter. It would be the very best for the world and mostly for the people in North Korea if that vile regime headed by that fat psychopath was done away with.
But Trumps lack of realpolitic knowledge is laid out for the whole world to see when he engages in a back and forth word-war with the fat little Commie king. Embarrasing, really.
In Fallujah the intended targets were specifically Da‘esh fighters. I suppose the distinction between Muslims in general and Da‘esh fighters actively engaged in combat action may very well escape you, but I don't see any way to help ya with that.
Lee: "In Fallujah the intended targets were specifically Da‘esh fighters."
Wouldn't have been any "daesh fighters" in Fallujah if Dubya hadn't bombed the shit out of and invaded Iraq based entirely on false pretexts. With tools like you cheering him on.
"Wouldn't have been any "daesh fighters" in Fallujah if Dubya hadn't…"
You don't know that. What we do know is that al-Qaeda in Iraq (which later morphed into Da‘esh) had training camps set up in upper north-east Iraq, and that Saddam was leaving them alone. (I seem to recall he did move against them just before the invasion as a last minute move he hoped would make the invasion less likely but that would still preserve the integrety of his WMD threat, keep people from discovering that he didn't have them anymore) What would have become of them if Saddam hadn't been pressured is anybody's guess; they might still be affiliated with al-Qaeda. Looks like they're maybe gonna be dropping their competition with al-Qaeda anyway, now that the Caliphate looks like a goner. Go back to a united front.
"Wouldn't have been any "daesh fighters" in Fallujah if Dubya hadn't…"
But, Dubya did what he did, and so eventually there ended up being Da‘esh fighters in Fallujah and when you were trying to paint Shorthands as less interventionist than Obama, you somehow got all confused about your target and started talking about what Bush did instead.
That's a fairly good metaphor for your continued confusion about what ya got in Sweden.
It's way too late to be trying to keep the Muslims out of Sweden. You need to give up on that idea and start coming up with ideas about what you're gonna do to integrate the ones ya got now that ya got ‘em. (Hell, even your left-wing politicians seem to have recognized that they've taken in quite enough Muslims already.)
"I am jealous of you for doing a roadtrip in the USA"
This one is strictly business -- eclipse business. Actually, going to New Orleans was a mistake. I had a mad plan to get as far west as Dallas, then circle back up ready to pounce wherever the weather looked promising. But the weather for the centre of the country isn't looking too hot as of now. Also, New Orleans is unfortunately -- not to put too fine a point on it -- a total shit hole. I vaguely expected that, but having only touched down in the airport there once before, it was even worse than expected. Anyway I got to do enough of a whirlwind dash across GA, AL, MS, LA to satisfy me that I needn't put this part of the world high up on my "must visit" list. Some nice people down here though.
I'm now back in Knoxville, Tennessee holed up in a very nice hotel and making my own eclipse glasses and camera filters out of decent quality Baader astrosolar film that I brought with me. Eastern TN is currently one of the few spots outside of Oregon and Idaho that is showing some promising weather for eclipse day (though that may change, of course). And Oregon is reportedly already experiencing "car-pocalypse".
Funny how you get used to being connected. Scary really. Anyway, I'm baaaackkk...after spending too much to determine that my computer was stuck in some kind of frozen update from Microsoft. *sigh*
But Trumps lack of realpolitic knowledge is laid out for the whole world to see when he engages in a back and forth word-war with the fat little Commie king. Embarrasing, really.
Perhaps you heard that the remaining 16 members of the President's Committee on the Arts and the Humanities resigned in protest Friday. Actor Kal Penn, a member of the group, shared the resignation letter on Twitter -- a sharp rebuke of the President's response to white nationalist rallies in Charlottesville, Virginia, in which Trump blamed people on "all sides" for the deadly violence and rejected calls to remove divisive Confederate monuments. "We cannot sit idly by, the way that your West Wing advisors have, without speaking out against your words and actions," the letter said. "Ignoring your hateful rhetoric would have made us complicit in your words and actions." As the letter spread through the Internet, many noticed the group used artistic license to drive home its point. The first letter of each paragraph spells out a rallying cry: RESIST.
MAGA. This is the real deal, not some made up talking point created by a man who has no idea what "great" really means.
Thanks for the thought, Lynnette. I'm afraid I've no experience of solar photography so bringing the camera gear was an afterthought. The two minutes of totality is probably not going to be enough to hone my skills. And there's probably not a lot I can say about the eclipse that isn't common knowledge. But I'll let you know how it goes. It'll probably be an achievement just to battle the traffic to get to the centre of the zone of totality, and then the rest is weather dependent. :)
Since I dissed New Orleans, can I mention that Knoxville TN is unexpectedly gorgeous.
Interesting history around here too, especially in the light of recent events. Tomorrow I will be combining Mass with a search for a plaque to the "poet-priest of the Confederacy", a certain Father Abram Ryan (look him up on Wikipedia, too painful to insert the link on iPad). That's a definite Tipperary name, and indeed I see his parents hailed from a tiny village I visited on holiday just a couple of weeks back, which happens to be also the next village over from Ronald Reagan's ancestral home, which he visited on his 1984 trip to Ireland.
Interesting that Fr. Ryan's support for the Confederacy stemmed from the anti-Catholicism of the Abolitionists. Goes to show that nobody is ever on the right side of history on every issue ;-)
On another subject, Shorthands claims to have decided on a strategy for Afghanistan. TrumpTweets Nobody outside the White House seems to know what this strategy is. Perhaps nobody inside the White House either.
I've noticed a rising sense of dismay among American right-wingers at hearing news that not enough Downs' Syndrome children are being born in Iceland, and a real fear is being expressed that maybe soon there won't be enough genetically damaged children born in the United States either. (Perhaps the Trump Administration's new EPA regulations will help us avoid that fate.)
Anytime Petes. If you feel more comfortable leaving a few comments about the experience that would be good too, especially since I can't see it here in MN.
I would also invite Lee C. to do the same, if he is going to chase the eclipse too.
Since I dissed New Orleans, can I mention that Knoxville TN is unexpectedly gorgeous.
Someone I work with is from New Orleans. She went through Katrina, losing just about everything. After that she started looking around for another area of the country to relocate to. She chose Minnesota for various reasons, but still misses some things about New Orleans, such as the food. In general Minnesota tastes tend to run toward the bland, less spicy fare. But she really enjoys the "cabin life" in the summer and the colder winters. lol! Go figure.
I don't know if any of you watch, or like, any of the longer videos I post periodically, but sometimes I run across things of interest I like to share.
Last night I started a more current one of Manhattan and the development that is taking place there. It's not just about the building that is taking place, it also highlights the divide between the have's and have not's that the changes seem to be exacerbating.
So far it is a good illustration of some of the issues we are facing here in the US with the gap in income levels. Because, while we may not see wealth on display to that level in other areas of the country, we are seeing the gentrification of many neighborhoods, which pushes out the lower income occupants.
"the "cabin life" in the summer and the colder winters."
I can imagine wanting to get away from the summer heat in New Orleans alright. The local TV channel was reporting that it was still dangerously hot to go out in at 11pm! And indeed, it hit you like a wall when you ventured out. But I understand the biggest ongoing weather problem is still with water. They got 30 inches of rain in the last few weeks, with an unbelievable 10 inches in 3 hours on August 5th. It turns out all the new pumps they installed after Katrina were unable to cope. Indeed, most of them couldn't even be brought online due to poor planning and neglect, so there was a lot of bad flooding. I believe most of one of the parish councils fell on their swords and resigned. It's obvious to the casual eye that New Orleans has a lot of abject poverty, but is a pity that their misery is compounded by administrative incompetence.
Shorthands is planning to ‘address the nation’ Monday night about his strategy in Afghanistan. Ordinarily I'd say that means they've probably come up with a plan, but this is Shorthands we're talkin’ ‘bout here, and he needs a change of subject in the national headlines. So, maybe not.
If he has come up with a plan I'd reckon the most likely plan would be to do what the generals want to do, which is an incremental uptick in the number of troops we've got in Afghanistan, for an indeterminate time. That's generally what generals want to do, and there's little reason to think they'll come to a different want this time around.
I was more than a little dubious about Obama's decision to succumb to the generals' recommendations for an Afghanistan ‘surge’ some years back, and I'll be even more dubious about the wisdom of another ‘creep’ in the troop levels. Seems like it'll just be more of the same stuff that's not created a viable central government in Afghanistan for 16 years now. As long as we don't address the Pakistani problem--the Pakis offering aid and succor (and safe zones) to the Taliban we're not going to see an end to the Taliban. And I see no indications that Shorthands' generals are even pushing to solve that problem.
...but is a pity that their misery is compounded by administrative incompetence.
She has made mention of some situations in the south that bear out that observation. There is also the matter of corruption, as well as racial and gender inequality.
I am starting to suspect that there is something seriously wrong with our Navy, or at least the training being given to our sailors. It seems we have again managed to collide with another ship, leading to several sailors going missing.
I expect the USS McCain went thirteen years without a crackup since it first put to sea, and then after Shorthands was named Commander in Chief it became the second naval vessel to attempt suicide just this summer.
It's clear here this morning. We will see if it remains so for the critical time period. But I suspect there will not be much to see here, with only a partial eclipse.
It appears that Shorthands will address the Pakistan problem in tonight's presentation on his lack of a real Afghanistan policy. Indications are that he will demand the Pakis fix his Taliban problem for him. That worked out so well when he demanded the Chinese fix the North Korean problem that he will again threaten to tweet at foreigners who fail to serve him.
The Pakis must be shaking in their boots already. Show starts in 15 minutes. (The other show is over now.)
I listened to Shorthands' speech from earlier tonight. He had a pretty good speechwriter for this one (i.e. somebody who knows how to write a speech that uses Shorthands' own "voice".). This one opened with a whole lot of blameshifting and notations about how everybody agrees with Shorthands and everybody is eager to do what he wants.
I'm more than a little dubious about that latter proposition.
Damn little in the way of explanation about how he's gonna solve the Paki problem, how's he gonna make them fix his Taliban problem for him. Virtually nothing on that. He appears to think it'll just happen ‘cause that's what he wants to happen. That probably ain't gonna happen.
"Damn little in the way of explanation about how he's gonna solve the Paki problem, how's he gonna make them fix his Taliban problem for him. Virtually nothing on that. He appears to think it'll just happen ‘cause that's what he wants to happen. That probably ain't gonna happen."
Here's an "analysis" of sort, if you can call it that, which loosely explains the how and it's meant to work and why it might:
I think the one thing that article got right is Pakistan is playing a double game. But I don't think any of the measures suggested (or speculated - I don't know how "in the know" the interviewee actually is) will change much.
I think the Taliban have the advantage of controlling the timeline. They can drag this out for generations and need only not be completely defeated. The US's patience with ths costly effort is limited.
The Pakistanis know that, and they are probably pretty OK with it and not too eager to make any dramatic changes. They might make some changes for show, but it will still be within the limits of their double game and not meant to change the actual outcome.
So yeah, I pretty much agree with your conclusion on the matter.
Then of course it's not even entirely clear that Pakistan could "solve the Taliban problem" to begin with, even if theis government wanted to. They suffered some severe backlash from their domestic Taliban/Jihadi/Radical groups when they were deemed too accomodating to the US in the past. That whole Swat-valley uprising, what was it, some 7-8 years ago? Probably spooked them quite a bit. Also who really runs the show there in a crisis situation, the government or the ISI?
That's not an analysis by Breitbart, it's a dust cloud. They conclude that:
"The lack of a timeline will also help convince Pakistan to begin behaving. “‘It serves to warn the Pakistan Army that the U.S. is in Afghanistan to stabilize the situation and we’re not about to leave.’”
That's not what Shorthands actually said, what he said was:
"However, our commitment is not unlimited, and our support is not a blank check."
Shorthands has been wanting a ‘win’ here lately so that his dedicated Trumpkins can get ‘so tired of winning’ that they'll ask him to lose a few, as promised during his campaign.
In service to that thought, he's apparently preparing to announce that the border fencing that's already up in some areas, and been up since Dubya was President, is actually part of The Great Wall of Trump that he's been promising to build. link
Turns out he's winning so great that he actually won that one fifteen years ago.
I missed it. Yes, that was intentional. There is very little that Trump has to say right about now that I really want to listen to. I spent my time immersed in Before the Fall, by Noah Hawley, which I finally found some time to start. Very good.
I have to wonder if Trump's core supporters are even noticing little things like this?
The Trump administration has halted a study of the health effects of a common mining technique in Appalachia, which is believed to deposit waste containing toxic minerals in ground waters.
A letter from the Interior Department directed the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine to "cease all work" on a study of the potential health risks of mountaintop removal mining for people living near surface coal mine sites in central Appalachia. The Interior Department acknowledged in a statement that it had "put on hold" $1 million in funding for the two-year project as part of a review of its grants, which is focused on "responsibly using taxpayer dollars."
Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin's wife Louise Linton is facing a backlash for an Instagram post -- later deleted -- that touted the couple's wealth.
The post began with a glamorous photo of Linton stepping off an official government plane on a trip to Kentucky with her husband, who was there to discuss tax reform with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and visit Fort Knox. Dressed in all white and carrying a handbag and silk scarf, the Scottish-born actress and producer tagged a series of luxury designers, including Hermes, Roland Mouret, Tom Ford and Valentino. "Great #daytrip to #Kentucky! #nicest #people #beautiful #countryside #usa," she wrote. Instagram user Jenni Miller, a mother of three from Oregon, took issue with the post, commenting, "Glad we could pay for your little getaway. #deplorable"
Personally, I don't think I want to live in the class divide that seems to be widening under Trump and his followers. It's starting to give me heartburn.
The NewYorkTimes has posted a piece that is almost certain to have Shorthands and Mitch McConnell both denouncing ‘leaks’ (political not national security stuff) while otherwise trying to both pin the other one for the fact that Republicans aren't getting anything done and somehow simultaneously not comment for public attribution at all. (Unless, of course, Shorthands decides to have himself a twitterburst.) Gonna be a hard trick to pull off.
The problem that Trump has is that he believes he is the boss, period. Everyone should listen to him and do what he says. But this is a democracy, where many people have a say, including Congress. McCain was right to remind the president, and members of Congress, that the Congress has just as much power as the Executive Branch. Our Constitution was written that way for a reason. And Mr. Trump embodies that reason.
As for the speech I think it was a pretty good one. But just as you said, while the "what" part was pretty clear the "how" part was hardly even adressed.
The most positive part IMO is the very clear stance against "nation building". That's because I think that trying to remake a place like for instance Afghanistan to a new place modelled on western democracy is bound to fail. That scope is way too broad. The measurements for success or faliure are too many, and may even be contradictory to eachother.
Trump lays out a much narrower set of goals. That's IMO wise. But even those narrower goals aren't that easy and the "how" part is still not explained.
The Pakistan issue, which is important, was left glaringly unexplained.
"As for the speech I think it was a pretty good one."
It was a teleprompter speech. That means: 1. Somebody else wrote it, probably without contribution from Shorthands. 2. He doesn't mean it, even if he knew what was in it before he saw it on the teleprompter, which is not a sure bet.
130 comments:
I take it you finished the series then.
More than fifty years later, and they're back again and they've got the Big Orange One sitting in the White House.
But, we survived them the last time around; we'll survive them this time too. There are less of them now, and more of the rest of us. They're making their last desperate stand for real relevance this time, and they'll fail. They'll never die out entirely (tribalism was bred into man at the primitive level), but this is gonna be the last time they can ever really convince themselves they've got a shot at taking back power in this country, so they're gonna take a desperate ‘all-in’ shot at it this time.
And they will fail.
Petes managed to irritate me enough in that last thread so that I've decided to prepare a greeting for him in this thread.
Follows.
"I…took a look at stormfront.org to check…most of them despise him."
Petes @ Mon Aug 14, 02:38:00 am
I took a look too. Ran a word search for ‘Trump’; turns out his name brings up one thread, which leads to a few more threads but not many (not even one of which was then remotely connected to Charlottesville (may have changed since, but, if so, there'll be dates included), so that doesn't back up your point either), and they seemed to not quite despise him after all, not in general. But then again, I may have not been motivate to make as diligent a search as you were disposed to make.
Quaere then: How many of them who seem to ‘despise’ Trump did you actually find scattered across those threads? How many?
"There's even a comment buried in there somewhere from YOU…"
Petes @ Mon Jul 31, 03:03:00 am (previous thread)
No, there's not. (Are we havin’ fun yet?)
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That may seem repetitive of my opening in the last thread:
"But it's fun to remind ya every now 'n' again."
Petes @ Mon Jul 31, 03:03:00 am (previous thread)
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And we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming….
And I won't dwell overlong on your fake photograph. This brief mention is all it needs.
Jack Posobiec, one of the right-wing organizers of this coming weekend's schedule of nine (9) separate right-winger marches, has attempted to call the whole thing off, ostensibly because of threats from what he calls ‘alt left terrorists’. link It's not clear to me that he has the status to call those off now that the ball is rolling; they may just go ahead without him, but I guess we'll see.
"Russian President Vladimir Putin is enjoying rising popularity among
Republicans according to a new poll from the Pew Research Center.
The poll found that the share of Republicans expressing confidence in
Putin doubled to 34 percent from 17 percent in 2015, when Donald
Trump launched a campaign for the White House that was seen as
friendly toward Moscow.
“‘We’ve seen quite a shift on the side of Republicans, with
Republicans now being much more favorable toward Russia,’…the
shift was ‘quite significant.’"
Politico.com
I take it you finished the series then.
I did, yes. It was well worth the time.
But, we survived them the last time around; we'll survive them this time too.
I have faith that good will prevail.
I'm gonna be typin' on an iPad for the next while, so I won't be havin' time to entertain Chumpy's ravings. If it's any consolation to y'all I no longer think there could have been any moderate right wingers at the Charlotsville ruckus. Had there been, they would have been at fault for the company they kept. But there wasn't. It was shitbags through and through. I still think it was the lefties who kicked things off.
Anyway, that's all yer gettin' tonight. I got a long drive in the mornin' to visit some Catholics in Alabama.
[Chumpy]: " Petes managed to irritate me enough in that last thread..."
But don't worry, I noted that with satisfaction.
Lee: "The counter demonstrators were not, in fact, Europeans; [...] You're not at all familiar with the folks who were actually there."
Oh, it seems to me Antifa uses much the same tactics over there as back here:
http://bigleaguepolitics.com/man-stabbed-antifa-mob-outside-home-not-condemning-nazis-hard-enough/
Read that one carefully to understand why the guy was cut up. That's your peaceful counter protesters for you. making housecalls is one of their most favored tactics back here too. Preferably many on one, often against women, no concern if children are present.
"That's your peaceful counter protesters for you."
I rather doubt that. You may not be aware of this, but Vermont is a long way from Virginia. The United States is BIG compared the cramped environs you're used to. (Didn't call the cops nor seek medical aid? Really now Marcus, even you should see that he's hiding what really got him stabbed; doesn't want it investigated.)
"I still think it was the lefties who kicked things off."
You do claim to be a creature of faith.
"…so I won't be havin' time to entertain Chumpy's ravings."
Not to worry. I can remind everybody again later. Maybe tell them where the photo you lied about really came from next time. (Cut and paste, cut and paste; nothin’ to it.)
Post Script:
The self-proclaimed victim in Marcus' tale of woe above, one Sam Wormer, has now contradicted his earlier claim that it was ‘Antifa’ activists who stabbed him and he now claims to believe he was actually stabbed by persons affiliated with the ‘far right’ as he labels them. Snopes.Com
My guess is there will be further updates if Marcus cares to follow the story for us.
"…here's another photo of counter-demonstrators with helmets,
shields and masks…"
Petes @ Wed Aug 16, 12:45:00 am (prior thread)
I presume the ones with the pink shields and helmets are the counter-demonstrators. Going with that assumption, the only gas mask I see is on a photographer (who also has on a helmet; a perhaps wise precaution for a journalist in the face of neo-fascists). So, the counter-demonstrators have shields and helmets, defensive protection both (as would be a gas mask if they were using them). The only weapons I see are in the hands of the white supremacist, neo-fascists facing them.
I'm gonna go with the notion that the folks who brought weapons, the ones who have their weapons out and at the ready, are most likely the folks who started using them.
Petes on the other hand has his faith that this is not so.
Oh, wait, there is one guy on the counter-demonstrators side with a club (towards the right side of the cluster of pink shields). But, he's not in the front ranks of the pinkies.
The weapons on the white supremacist side are numerous, and more importantly, they are in the front ranks of white supremacist side, and held at the ready. So, I'm still gonna go with the notion that those brandishing their weapons in their front ranks are most likely the ones who started using their weapons.
Lee: "The self-proclaimed victim in Marcus' tale of woe above, one Sam Wormer, has now contradicted his earlier claim that it was ‘Antifa’ activists who stabbed him and he now claims to believe he was actually stabbed by persons affiliated with the ‘far right’ as he labels them."
A conversion under the gallows is what we usually call something like that. He was clearly not saying anything along those lines when he first spoke out. It was quite clear who he saw as the likely culprits.
"It was quite clear who he saw as the likely culprits."
Perhaps you should re-read the part where he claims that the folks at bigleaguepolitics.com supplied that clarity (no doubt for your benefit, and for the benefit of your fellow travelers) as an addition to what he actually told them.
Me, I don't trust a damn thing he says that doesn't have corroborating evidence from another source.
I have no idea who attacked him. I suppose I believe he was attacked because I don't think anyone would gash himself that bad for publicity alone.
But what I do know is in his own tweet, before any newspaper got hold of the story, he blamed "social justice" a term not often used for anything but leftists:
http://bigleaguepolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/3-169x300.jpg
Before that he had, feeling attacked by leftists online made this comment:
"Wow i really cant believe what a neo nazi i am rn. [...]"
So clearly before any attaack he felt unjustly jumped on from leftists and after he felt he was attacked by so called SWJ:s. He didn't mention AAntifa, I'll grant you that.
But to go from there to this being a false flag by rightwing groups, we'll that's a stretch. I can't see him saying that for any other reason than to get himself out of the limelight, away from further attacks and to distance himself from anything rightwing.
Even though he himself wasn't even rightwing he committed the crime of standing up for a guy who had been at that rightwing rally, he paid a price and he decided it was not a price he wanted to pay for sticking up for a guy whose ideas he doesn't even share. So he changed his story accordingly.
A conversion under the gallows. That's my take on it. Do you really find that unlikely?
SJW:s, not SJW:s
"A conversion under the gallows."
Petes will tell you that a gallows conversion is considered valid. The other part of the saying is that the prospect of a hanging at sunrise concentrates the mind.
Also making "house calls" against political opponents is a fairly typical Antifa tactic. It could be that it's different in the US but it is a group/movement with the same flag over there as here and I think the tactics may be similar.
Here, typical Nazi violence is a group of nazis out drinking (or doing drugs, hardcore nazis don't drink because Hitler didn't but they do do other drugs) and they get into a fight or they see someone they hate, a gay, a black person, and they pounce. They can be extremely dangerous but it's usually at the spur of the moment and not really pre planned.
Antifa are usually more into looking up where someone lives and making a house call. Attacking as a gang when the target is alone. Pre planned. Oftentimes not even attacking the person but hitting their door with an axe or tossing a smoke grenade through a window or something. Scare tactics - we know where you live, back down or else sorta stuff.
Again, could always be exceptions and also could be that in the US it's different, but an attack like the one described bears the hallmarks of Antifa as far as I see it.
My main point is, they are not nearly the innocent counter protestors who would never start violence that you seem to think (not that I think you actually think it, you just run with it because it suits the narrative you've adopted).
"Petes will tell you that…"
Come to think on it, he's been lying even more than usual here of late; must have something to do with faith. Whatever it has to do with, this is probably not the time to cite Petes as an authority on anything.
"…you just run with it because it suits the narrative you've adopted…"
It's your narrative that you're running with, not mine. I've never said they were innocents, and I have said I was most definitely not going to try to justify the ones who were carrying weapons.
We have a big Nazi ddebate going on here in Sweden right now. We have a yearly book fair where writers congregate in Gothenburg each year. For the past two years a news paper called Nya Tider (that I have never read because it's a paper paper you have to subscribe to) which is called anything from rightwing to fascist to even nazi has attended. This causes a yearly shitstorm where some writers say they have to attend because not attending would give the fascists a win, and others boycotting because giving fascists room means validating their opinions. It's kind of a storm in the writer's own little duck pond but it makes the papers.
THIS year the Nordic Resistance Movement, an actual self proclaimed Nazi organisation have sough and gotten permission for a street rally at the same time as that book fair and in the vincinity. They are a fringe group, a couple hundred strong maybe a thousand even, but they are quite organised.
We have hate speech laws so our freedom of speech is not what it is in the US. But our freedom to hold a rally is probably stronger here, at least in practice. So they sought a permit to march and they got it.
The police chief in Gothenburg was asked how they could get that because one of only three things the police can point to for not allowing a rally is violence. The police chief answered that they do expect riots and violence, but not from the demonstrating nazis, but from countre protestors, and they can't deny the right to assembly because other factions get violent.
It's in swedish but you can either take my word or use Googre Translate:
http://www.friatider.se/polischefen-det-r-extremv-nstern-som-st-ller-till-problem
"But our freedom to hold a rally is probably stronger here, at least
in practice."
I doubt that's true.
I said in practice. There's no chance the police in Sweden would have let the violence get out of hand like in Charlottesville. They would have been in the know of about how many there were on either side and had the manpower to separate them and they would have done so too. There would have been skirmishes on the outskirts maybe, but the rally with permission would have been held within a cordon of police.
Some on your right seems to suggest Charlottesville was a "trap", that the police there deliberatly saw to it the two sides met with inevitable clashes to give the authorities a reason to declare unlawful assembly and shut it down. Myself I lean more towards the police in the US not being as used to street rallies as the police in Europe is, and they fucked it up.
BTW, Lee, I was curious about your opinion on a matter a couple days back but I forgot to ask. Where do you stand on this "removal of statues"-thing?
Terror attack by van in Barcelona, about 15 dead. Seems neither me nor Zeyad won our internal bet as to where the next such attack would take place. A morbid thing to bet on anyway I guess, call it a draw Z?
"Some on your right seems to suggest Charlottesville was a ‘trap’…"
The white supremacists brought their own security, a group known as the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia, thirty-two men strong, three of the thirty-two here (not to mention that a lot of the neo-Nazis were carrying pistols). The Governor of Pennsylvania has said they were slow to move in because they had to consider the possibility of a firefight breaking out between the cops and the National Guard and the right-wingers' private militia. (Luckily the militia leaders had actually decided that the white supremacists were ‘nuts’ and were looking for a fight, and the militia leaders weren't interested in backing them up on that one, but the authorities didn't know that.)
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"Where do you stand on this "removal of statues"-thing?"
Statues to the Confederacy are an anachronism and an embarrassment, and it's past time for them to come down.
I actually didn't see this before but hell yeah Trump scored bigly here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdr0d2iRkA8
I am so, so, so glad he didn't bow to the radical leftists even in the face of a hostile media.
"…hell yeah Trump scored bigly here…"
You probably need to check out the reactions of his Congressional Republicans before you claim Trump scored at all. He kept his followers from the Radio-Right-Wing audience happy. But offended damn near everybody else.
What did he say that was offensive tho?
Lee: "Statues to the Confederacy are an anachronism and an embarrassment, and it's past time for them to come down."
So Jefferson who owned slaves, and Washington who owned slaves, should their history also be erased? Maybe the George Washington Bridge in NYC should be blown up?
If not: why not? He owned slaves. George Washington did.
Who draws the line for what parts of history (modern book burning) should be torn down or blown up? You Lee? Antifa? BLM? SPLC? Who?
Maybe you should go all around the USA and check every street-name and make sure they are all retacted and made new to include gays, trannies, feminists, blacks, hispanics, muslims, hindus, bhuddists, rednecks (no not them), queers, and whatnot. History? Fuck that right? We're progressives now. You could do that every year, because there's a new alphabeth of "victims" about every year.
"What did he say that was offensive tho?"
Among other things, he said,
"You also had some very fine people on both sides."
Nope! Wrong! ‘Very fine people’ don't march in Virginia under Nazi banners alongside people chanting ‘blood and soil’ and ‘the Jews will not replace us’ nor do they march alongside robed Klansmen. That don't happen.
"He owned slaves. George Washington did."
Yes, he did. He had them freed upon the death of his wife Martha (who had outlived him). He had her inheritance from him tied up so that the slaves went free at her death. This allows folks to believe that he'd have outlawed slavery if it had been up to him, if that's what they want to believe. One thing he did not do is engage in an armed insurrection against the American government to preserve the institution of slavery. Robert E. Lee did that and helped kill 700,000 Americans out of a population of around 30 million.
Mardi Gras? Why that's an affront to muslims. SHUT IT DOWN!
"So Jefferson who owned slaves…"
Jefferson was a bad money manager and perennially in debt and died deeply in debt. Virginia had a statue on the books that a man in debt could not free his slaves--the manumission was invalid. Jefferson could not legally free his slaves. Jefferson did sponsor a federal law intended to prevent slavery from spreading beyond the few Southern States where it was already legal--no new slave states nor slave territories (he was not successful in getting it passed into law, but he did make the effort). This allows persons who want to believe to believe that Jefferson wasn't really supportive of slavery either. Also Jefferson did not engage in an armed insurrection against the United States…etc.…etc.
"Maybe you should go all around the USA…"
You asked for my opinion on that subject. I gave it to you. Screw you and your asshole outrage.
Lee: "Nope! Wrong! ‘Very fine people’ don't march in Virginia under Nazi banners alongside people chanting ‘blood and soil’ and ‘the Jews will not replace us’ nor do they march alongside robed Klansmen. That don't happen."
Well....
Well...
Fuck!
I do have a weak argument there. I DID think the so called Alt Right was a new thing, a movement in line with my own thoughts. And I haven't completely given up on Spencer and his likes just yet.
But, hell, when I see the footage from Charlotte. Even when I see the rightists videos. I see a whole lotta nazis and clansmen and plain goons.
I didn't want to see that. I really hoped for a new american led rightist movement that I could get behind, and one that could give us rightists in Europe more hope.
But.....
Fuck...
I hate to say it..
It was a gaggle of demented skinhaters that made up the bulk of the rally participants in Charlottesville. And IF there were sound rightists there they are now tainted by the fucking degenerates they associated with.
It does pain me to say this.... but hell It's fucking obvious now.
(and the reason I didn't say this before Is I held a hope, but now I have watched the videos of even the rightists, not just the contra-rightists, and there's just no denying it.)
THAT SAID! It was STILL Antifa that initiated the violence!
Lee: "Screw you and your asshole outrage"
Well, go fistfuck yourself with a fucking handful of pine cones you too motherfucker!
Fucking asshole, can't even try to be civil. Just like a commie bitch motherfucker...
"THAT SAID! It was STILL Antifa that initiated the violence!"
The evidence strongly suggests otherwise. Petes has faith in the face of contrary evidence. Whadda you got?
Thing is Lee, there never even should have been a fight between them two sides, which was always gonna go violent regardless of which side "started" it.
The URA rally had a LEGAL right to hold an assembly. They sought it for Lee Park, got it, then it got overturned, then the ACLU helped them get it back. They had the right under the law to hold a rally. It's the duty of the state to ensure that. The tool to do so is police.
The so called counter protestors did NOT have a legal right to rally, because they never appplied for a permit to do so. They have a right to be in a public street anyway, but not to disrupt a lawful assembly by force.
Why the FUCK would the rightists mess up their rightful assembly only to beat up on a few Antifa?
C'mon Lee, you KNOW that is not what happened. I'm so sick of "debating" someone whose willfully lying here.
"The URA rally had a LEGAL right to hold an assembly. ***
"The so called counter protestors did NOT have a legal right to rally,
because they never appplied for a permit to do so."
At some point you're gonna havta learn to not believe Shorthands when he says things. He is an apparently compulsive and quite probably pathological liar.
First: The counter-protestors did have not just one, but two permits for their rally (covering both parks)
Second: The white supremacists had a permit, to march and to rally. By design marches and rallies are intended and expect to draw an audience. The audience does not need a separate permit, they're covered under the original permit as an expected, even a sought after, consequential gathering. Demonstrators who seek to demonstrate in public for the purpose of being seen by an audience cannot be heard to complain that the audience did not have their own separate permit. They are covered by the original permit and the intent of those who sought that permit to be noticed by a public audience. (Whether or not the audience is favorable or unfavorable to the agenda of the original permit seekers, whether or not the audience is impromptu or organized) four pinnocios
"Why the FUCK would the rightists mess up their rightful assembly
only to beat up on a few Antifa?"
PR. Publicity. They got hundreds of their people to come out this time. They considered that a rousing success.
Lee: "He had them freed upon the death of his wife Martha (who had outlived him). He had her inheritance from him tied up so that the slaves went free at her death. This allows folks to believe that he'd have outlawed slavery if it had been up to him, if that's what they want to believe."
Doesn't matter. They're gonna come for him next. Well maybe not "next" but soon enough.
You think a white former slave owner's gonna get a pass on account of him freeing some slaves? Forget that.
You silly little 'ol ethnomasochistic li'l boy still think this is 'bout history. Oh, how deluded ya'll are.
The ONLY good thing you've got goin' Lee is you're old enough that probably you won't live to see the results of your folly.
"I'm so sick of "debating" someone whose willfully lying here."
So, that's what you got in opposition to the evidence? Some blather about how I'm supposedly willfully lying, blather without either evidence or argument to support it? That's all ya got.
Screw you then.
I expect I'll outlive you. Your drinking habits don't suggest a long life ahead of ya.
Lee: "First: The counter-protestors did have not just one, but two permits for their rally (covering both parks)"
WTF? Are you serious? Do you say that a severly right wing rally and Antifascists got permits at the very same locations?
They cannot have been at the same space. That would be insane. There was bound to be a police line seperating them.
And that's what failed.
I think one serious issue has been drummed out of the narrative with regards to Charlottesville, and that's the police's abysmal performance.
Where the fuck were they?
"They cannot have been at the same space. That would be insane."
Maybe it'll soak in a second time. Let's try that again.
By design marches and rallies are intended and expect to draw an audience. The audience does not need a separate permit, they're covered under the original permit as an expected, even a sought after, consequential gathering. Demonstrators who seek to demonstrate in public for the purpose of being seen by an audience will not be heard to complain that the audience did not have their own separate permit. The audience is covered by the original permit and the intent of those who sought that permit to be noticed by a public audience. (Whether or not the audience is favorable or unfavorable to the agenda of the original permit seekers, whether or not the audience is organized) Even though the counter-protesters did take out a permit, that was extraneous; they did not need one; they were covered by the original permit which sought to generate a public audience.
"Where the fuck were they?"
One more time for the dense drunk. The white supremacists brought their own armed security. The governor of Virginia has said out loud in public that they were none too eager to get a shooting war going with that private militia. Said it several times, at least there was ‘no shooting’ in spite of all the armed white supremacists.
And so it goes.
Re: Where were the cops?
See Lee C. @ Thu Aug 17, 02:56:00 pm ↑↑
Presumably Shorthands will not say there were good people on both sides of the bumper in the Barcelona auto-terror attack from today.
And maybe even Petes won't claim that the pedestrians started it.
That's pretty tasteless, Chumpy, but I guess you're a tasteless kinda person.
I see Shorthands' favourite fake news channel has, for two nights in a row, been rolling out commentators to speculate that Shorthands is actually and literally unhinged. So, CNN has finally jumped the shark and outfoxed Fox.
"So, CNN has finally jumped the shark and outfoxed Fox."
More likely they've merely jumped the gun.
"The President has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability
nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate in order to
be successful."
Senator Bob Corker (Republican, Tennessee)
Corker has been, up ‘til now, a fairly consistent supporter for Shorthands.
The opposites of stability and competence are ‘unstable’ and ‘incompetent’, and this is from a guy that was on Shorthands' good list up ‘til now. So, CNN has probably just moved into that space a little earlier than some others.
(I'm given to understand, by the way, that the American Psychiatric Association is quietly debating a new resolution overturning their current blanket rule against psychiatrists offering opinions on the mental state of persons they have not personally examined. That rule was put in place after Senator Goldwater's run for the Presidency, when several shrinks made their evaluations of him public. The professional association declared that to be malpractice in the case of issuing opinions on folks they'd not personally sat down with. It's informally called ‘The Goldwater Rule’. They're thinking about suspending that rule now that they're looking at Shorthands performances. Or so I hear tell. Probably won't do it, but they're supposedly discussing it.)
CNN just had yet another person on saying Trump should be sectioned. I presume that means the same in the USA as Europe. Nope, they are not talking about Trump "lacking stability". They clearly are trying to get a meme going here. The same way Big Ears was a foreign born Muslim to his less discerning opponents, Trump will now be a raving nutter.
And what about that Missouri senator calling for Trump to be assassinated? If she stays in her job it will be proof positive that the same rules don't apply to Preznit Shorthands as would certainly have applied to Preznit Big Ears.
‘Sectioned’? Just what does that mean in Europe?
Which state senator ever called for Obama to be assassinated?
(I think, technically, she just wrote that she ‘wished’, which is not the same as ‘calling for’. Probably just enough of a distinction to get her warned by the Secret Service but not charged.)
Hmmm. Seems the actual wording of the (now deleted) Facebook comment was "I hope Trump is assassinated". Probably doesn't qualify as a ‘call for’ his assassination, and will get her a visit from the Secret Service, but obviously it's not an actual threat against his life, which would be illegal--free speech or no, we got a law against issuing threats against the President. So, we need the name of that state senator who supposedly ‘called for’ Obama to be assassinated in order to compare outcomes here.
*sigh*
I might have to break down and get a smart phone. It could work as backup for my laptop. So I have my computer in the computer hospital being diagnosed and hopefully healed. We shall see. I got the black screen of death. But it's gonna take two days, so I won't be around for a bit. I am on my computer at work at the moment...
So while I have a minute I will try to catch up on comments.
I'll give you the news then.
Steve Bannon is OUT of the White House. Supposedly submitted his resignation 10 days ago on 7 August. That's the official story.
Anything more would be speculation, that's all I really know about that subject.
Marcus: I hate to say it..
It was a gaggle of demented skinhaters that made up the bulk of the rally participants in Charlottesville. And IF there were sound rightists there they are now tainted by the fucking degenerates they associated with.
Yes, just as I suspected, you are no more Nazi than am I. I also suspect you are not really a bigot.
I see Shorthands' favourite fake news channel has, for two nights in a row, been rolling out commentators to speculate that Shorthands is actually and literally unhinged. So, CNN has finally jumped the shark and outfoxed Fox.
Oh no, that speculation has been around for some time now. They are just more open about it now.
Seriously though, Petes, do you really believe his behavior to be normal?
I have already made known that I am speculating that he has the beginning stages of dementia.
Steve Bannon is OUT of the White House.
I saw that on CNN. It's probably too little too late. I suspect that even members of Congress are fed up with Trump. Whether or not he is really crazy, demented or just clueless, he has gone a long way to sew divisions in the US to the point of the extremists feeling emboldened to rally.
What person refuses to even talk to the President of the Unites States? The mother of the woman killed in Charlottesville, that's who. Frankly I don't blame her. Even if Trump is different in private, his views in public are not desirable.
Okay, I'm off for a bit then. Don't get into too much trouble while I'm gone. ;)
Steve Bannon's already back at Breitbart as Executive Chairman. TheHill He claims to be preparing to ‘go to war for the Trump agenda’. This may mean excoriating Trump for abandoning the Breitbart agenda.
"Yes, just as I suspected, you are no more Nazi than am I."
The major difference between Marcus' philosophies and those of the classical Nazi are that the Nazi were hostile primarily to Jews, whereas Marcus is (for now) primarily hostile to Arabs and Muslims.
Also he knows that the Nazi get universally bad press. His objection to the ‘sound rightists’ participation in the Charlottesville rallies seems to center on the fact that they were utterly stupid to associate themselves with the ‘degenerates’, i.e. folks who don't have the basic common sense to not fly Nazi flags in public.
I'm not sure these differences are as fundamental as you seem to believe.
[Lynnette]: "Seriously though, Petes, do you really believe his behavior to be normal? "
Yes, entirely normal ... for him! Looks and sounds exactly like he did on The Apprentice. What we you expecting, Ronald Reagan? :) :) :)
We = were. Dang iPad.
P.S. The 23 mile causeway over Lake Pontchartrain is one of the scariest ass roads I've been on. Trump needs to infrastructuralise it! :)
Lee: "The major difference between Marcus' philosophies and those of the classical Nazi are that the Nazi were hostile primarily to Jews, whereas Marcus is (for now) primarily hostile to Arabs and Muslims."
That's because it's mostly arab and central asian muslims who have flooded into Sweden lately. If it had been Africans I wuld have had my main beef with them. If it had been chinese I would have had my main beef with them.
That said, there are certain aspects of muslim arabs I find more troublesome, you can look to Barcelona for the latest example.
But mainly I just want Sweden to remain Sweden, a country for swedes. That is my main concern. On a larger scale I feel the same for Europe.
I have NO problem with arabs in Arabia. In fact I think people like you and your idol Obama or your other idol Hillary should stop bombing them and wrecking their homelands.
Lee: "Also he knows that the Nazi get universally bad press. His objection to the ‘sound rightists’ participation in the Charlottesville rallies seems to center on the fact that they were utterly stupid to associate themselves with the ‘degenerates’, i.e. folks who don't have the basic common sense to not fly Nazi flags in public."
That would be more or less correct. I do think that sane people on the right with isolationaist viewpoints, even folks with a racial agenda, should try to refrain from being seen connected to anything like the KKK or Nazism.
We certainly don't need brownshirts, we need educated and smart men and women who can influence society and move it in a direction towards increased sanity.
Pete: "P.S. The 23 mile causeway over Lake Pontchartrain is one of the scariest ass roads I've been on. Trump needs to infrastructuralise it! :)"
I am jealous of you for doing a roadtrip in the USA. That's my dream vacation you're on.
Take pictures and make notes and do a blog post when you get back home and have the time for it, won't you?
"…or your other idol Hillary should stop bombing them…"
Obama turned out to be a disappointment in many respects, but an over-eagerness to bomb Arabs wasn't one of them. Mostly he went in for drone shots on specific and identified al-Qaeda and Da‘esh targets. He did let the Brits and the French talk him into supporting the intervention they led in Libya, but they were going in either way, whether he stepped up to support them or not.
Your favored fella, Trump, however, has taken to bombing with a passion equal to anything I could have feared from Hillary. (I never was over fond of her anyway. About the only good thing I've ever had occasion to say about Hillary was that I was favorably impressed with her work ethic when she was Secretary of State. The lack of success was not her fault, it being Obama's policies she worked to implement, but I was impressed with her work ethic; she put her shoulder to the wheel.)
I never really understood how moslems incinerated to death by white phosporous in Fallujah is a good thing, but protesting moslems overtaking cities in Sweden is a bad thing.
You do have some Orwellian shit goin' on Lee. For sure. War is Peace, etc...
Me? I would have just let arabs in Arabia go on about their business and if they had stumbled across democracy then great, otherwise let them live as they choose. Not here though, not in Malmö, not in Sweden.
Lee: "Your favored fella, Trump, however, has taken to bombing with a passion equal to anything I could have feared from Hillary."
I'm actually lukewarm on Trump. I was all for him because the alternative was that old vampire Hillary. Now, not an ardent supporter by any means.
Guy even fired Bannon for christs sake.
He does do bombings, but he inherited a war and at least he has the right focus, bombing ISIS. That's an improvement from your previous arming-terrorists-against-Assad stance.
His childish twittering about North Korea, on the other hand, has me cringing. And I am certainly NOT a North Korea supporter. It would be the very best for the world and mostly for the people in North Korea if that vile regime headed by that fat psychopath was done away with.
But Trumps lack of realpolitic knowledge is laid out for the whole world to see when he engages in a back and forth word-war with the fat little Commie king. Embarrasing, really.
"…in Fallujah…"
In Fallujah the intended targets were specifically Da‘esh fighters. I suppose the distinction between Muslims in general and Da‘esh fighters actively engaged in combat action may very well escape you, but I don't see any way to help ya with that.
"I'm actually lukewarm on Trump."
That would make him your favored fella.
This video from Vice was the one that made me realise the rally in Charlottesville was mainly a bunch of assholes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrcB1sAN8I
By far the best report I have seen.
Lee: "In Fallujah the intended targets were specifically Da‘esh fighters."
Wouldn't have been any "daesh fighters" in Fallujah if Dubya hadn't bombed the shit out of and invaded Iraq based entirely on false pretexts. With tools like you cheering him on.
Lee: "That would make him your favored fella."
Out of the options, yeah.
"Wouldn't have been any "daesh fighters" in Fallujah if Dubya
hadn't…"
You don't know that. What we do know is that al-Qaeda in Iraq (which later morphed into Da‘esh) had training camps set up in upper north-east Iraq, and that Saddam was leaving them alone. (I seem to recall he did move against them just before the invasion as a last minute move he hoped would make the invasion less likely but that would still preserve the integrety of his WMD threat, keep people from discovering that he didn't have them anymore) What would have become of them if Saddam hadn't been pressured is anybody's guess; they might still be affiliated with al-Qaeda. Looks like they're maybe gonna be dropping their competition with al-Qaeda anyway, now that the Caliphate looks like a goner. Go back to a united front.
"Out of the options, yeah."
So, now ya got Hillary's interventionist tendencies coupled with a general incompetence.
Hell, he's even mused aloud about perhaps wanting to invade Venezuela.
"Wouldn't have been any "daesh fighters" in Fallujah if Dubya
hadn't…"
But, Dubya did what he did, and so eventually there ended up being Da‘esh fighters in Fallujah and when you were trying to paint Shorthands as less interventionist than Obama, you somehow got all confused about your target and started talking about what Bush did instead.
That's a fairly good metaphor for your continued confusion about what ya got in Sweden.
It's way too late to be trying to keep the Muslims out of Sweden. You need to give up on that idea and start coming up with ideas about what you're gonna do to integrate the ones ya got now that ya got ‘em. (Hell, even your left-wing politicians seem to have recognized that they've taken in quite enough Muslims already.)
"I am jealous of you for doing a roadtrip in the USA"
This one is strictly business -- eclipse business. Actually, going to New Orleans was a mistake. I had a mad plan to get as far west as Dallas, then circle back up ready to pounce wherever the weather looked promising. But the weather for the centre of the country isn't looking too hot as of now. Also, New Orleans is unfortunately -- not to put too fine a point on it -- a total shit hole. I vaguely expected that, but having only touched down in the airport there once before, it was even worse than expected. Anyway I got to do enough of a whirlwind dash across GA, AL, MS, LA to satisfy me that I needn't put this part of the world high up on my "must visit" list. Some nice people down here though.
I'm now back in Knoxville, Tennessee holed up in a very nice hotel and making my own eclipse glasses and camera filters out of decent quality Baader astrosolar film that I brought with me. Eastern TN is currently one of the few spots outside of Oregon and Idaho that is showing some promising weather for eclipse day (though that may change, of course). And Oregon is reportedly already experiencing "car-pocalypse".
Funny how you get used to being connected. Scary really. Anyway, I'm baaaackkk...after spending too much to determine that my computer was stuck in some kind of frozen update from Microsoft. *sigh*
The weather here is going to be lousy too, so even if we had been in the path we wouldn't have been able to see much.
If you would like to write a post or share photos, please let me know Petes. I'm sure I can figure out how to get you access to the blog again.
But Trumps lack of realpolitic knowledge is laid out for the whole world to see when he engages in a back and forth word-war with the fat little Commie king. Embarrasing, really.
Indeed. Makes Hillary look good, really.
Another act of resistance.
It was an act of protest in form and function.
Perhaps you heard that the remaining 16 members of the President's Committee on the Arts and the Humanities resigned in protest Friday. Actor Kal Penn, a member of the group, shared the resignation letter on Twitter -- a sharp rebuke of the President's response to white nationalist rallies in Charlottesville, Virginia, in which Trump blamed people on "all sides" for the deadly violence and rejected calls to remove divisive Confederate monuments.
"We cannot sit idly by, the way that your West Wing advisors have, without speaking out against your words and actions," the letter said. "Ignoring your hateful rhetoric would have made us complicit in your words and actions."
As the letter spread through the Internet, many noticed the group used artistic license to drive home its point. The first letter of each paragraph spells out a rallying cry: RESIST.
MAGA. This is the real deal, not some made up talking point created by a man who has no idea what "great" really means.
Thanks for the thought, Lynnette. I'm afraid I've no experience of solar photography so bringing the camera gear was an afterthought. The two minutes of totality is probably not going to be enough to hone my skills. And there's probably not a lot I can say about the eclipse that isn't common knowledge. But I'll let you know how it goes. It'll probably be an achievement just to battle the traffic to get to the centre of the zone of totality, and then the rest is weather dependent. :)
Since I dissed New Orleans, can I mention that Knoxville TN is unexpectedly gorgeous.
Interesting history around here too, especially in the light of recent events. Tomorrow I will be combining Mass with a search for a plaque to the "poet-priest of the Confederacy", a certain Father Abram Ryan (look him up on Wikipedia, too painful to insert the link on iPad). That's a definite Tipperary name, and indeed I see his parents hailed from a tiny village I visited on holiday just a couple of weeks back, which happens to be also the next village over from Ronald Reagan's ancestral home, which he visited on his 1984 trip to Ireland.
Interesting that Fr. Ryan's support for the Confederacy stemmed from the anti-Catholicism of the Abolitionists. Goes to show that nobody is ever on the right side of history on every issue ;-)
On another subject, Shorthands claims to have decided on a strategy for Afghanistan. TrumpTweets Nobody outside the White House seems to know what this strategy is. Perhaps nobody inside the White House either.
Also another subject…
I've noticed a rising sense of dismay among American right-wingers at hearing news that not enough Downs' Syndrome children are being born in Iceland, and a real fear is being expressed that maybe soon there won't be enough genetically damaged children born in the United States either. (Perhaps the Trump Administration's new EPA regulations will help us avoid that fate.)
Thanks for the thought, Lynnette.
Anytime Petes. If you feel more comfortable leaving a few comments about the experience that would be good too, especially since I can't see it here in MN.
I would also invite Lee C. to do the same, if he is going to chase the eclipse too.
If you'll hang on ‘til 2099, I think you'll get one right over your head.
Since I dissed New Orleans, can I mention that Knoxville TN is unexpectedly gorgeous.
Someone I work with is from New Orleans. She went through Katrina, losing just about everything. After that she started looking around for another area of the country to relocate to. She chose Minnesota for various reasons, but still misses some things about New Orleans, such as the food. In general Minnesota tastes tend to run toward the bland, less spicy fare. But she really enjoys the "cabin life" in the summer and the colder winters. lol! Go figure.
If you'll hang on ‘til 2099, I think you'll get one right over your head.
lol! I suspect I will be dust by then.
I don't know if any of you watch, or like, any of the longer videos I post periodically, but sometimes I run across things of interest I like to share.
Last night I started a more current one of Manhattan and the development that is taking place there. It's not just about the building that is taking place, it also highlights the divide between the have's and have not's that the changes seem to be exacerbating.
So far it is a good illustration of some of the issues we are facing here in the US with the gap in income levels. Because, while we may not see wealth on display to that level in other areas of the country, we are seeing the gentrification of many neighborhoods, which pushes out the lower income occupants.
"…sometimes I run across things of interest I like to share."
And yet there's no name, no link, nothing to lead anybody to this ‘thing of interest’.
"the "cabin life" in the summer and the colder winters."
I can imagine wanting to get away from the summer heat in New Orleans alright. The local TV channel was reporting that it was still dangerously hot to go out in at 11pm! And indeed, it hit you like a wall when you ventured out. But I understand the biggest ongoing weather problem is still with water. They got 30 inches of rain in the last few weeks, with an unbelievable 10 inches in 3 hours on August 5th. It turns out all the new pumps they installed after Katrina were unable to cope. Indeed, most of them couldn't even be brought online due to poor planning and neglect, so there was a lot of bad flooding. I believe most of one of the parish councils fell on their swords and resigned. It's obvious to the casual eye that New Orleans has a lot of abject poverty, but is a pity that their misery is compounded by administrative incompetence.
Shorthands is planning to ‘address the nation’ Monday night about his strategy in Afghanistan. Ordinarily I'd say that means they've probably come up with a plan, but this is Shorthands we're talkin’ ‘bout here, and he needs a change of subject in the national headlines. So, maybe not.
If he has come up with a plan I'd reckon the most likely plan would be to do what the generals want to do, which is an incremental uptick in the number of troops we've got in Afghanistan, for an indeterminate time. That's generally what generals want to do, and there's little reason to think they'll come to a different want this time around.
I was more than a little dubious about Obama's decision to succumb to the generals' recommendations for an Afghanistan ‘surge’ some years back, and I'll be even more dubious about the wisdom of another ‘creep’ in the troop levels. Seems like it'll just be more of the same stuff that's not created a viable central government in Afghanistan for 16 years now. As long as we don't address the Pakistani problem--the Pakis offering aid and succor (and safe zones) to the Taliban we're not going to see an end to the Taliban. And I see no indications that Shorthands' generals are even pushing to solve that problem.
And yet there's no name, no link, nothing to lead anybody to this ‘thing of interest’.
Ahhhh, but perhaps there will be in another post...
That was called a preview.
...but is a pity that their misery is compounded by administrative incompetence.
She has made mention of some situations in the south that bear out that observation. There is also the matter of corruption, as well as racial and gender inequality.
I am starting to suspect that there is something seriously wrong with our Navy, or at least the training being given to our sailors. It seems we have again managed to collide with another ship, leading to several sailors going missing.
And they hit BIG stuff, things they ought to be able to see comin’.
If you name 'em after folks like McCain, what can you expect?
I expect the USS McCain went thirteen years without a crackup since it first put to sea, and then after Shorthands was named Commander in Chief it became the second naval vessel to attempt suicide just this summer.
Much like its namesake in the Senate then. Just went totally nuts over Trump.
Actually the USS McCain is named after the current Senator's Grandfather and father.
...after Shorthands was named Commander in Chief it became the second naval vessel to attempt suicide just this summer.
LOL!
It's clear here this morning. We will see if it remains so for the critical time period. But I suspect there will not be much to see here, with only a partial eclipse.
Rained today. Oh well. I think others had a good time, though. :)
It appears that Shorthands will address the Pakistan problem in tonight's presentation on his lack of a real Afghanistan policy. Indications are that he will demand the Pakis fix his Taliban problem for him. That worked out so well when he demanded the Chinese fix the North Korean problem that he will again threaten to tweet at foreigners who fail to serve him.
The Pakis must be shaking in their boots already. Show starts in 15 minutes. (The other show is over now.)
I listened to Shorthands' speech from earlier tonight. He had a pretty good speechwriter for this one (i.e. somebody who knows how to write a speech that uses Shorthands' own "voice".). This one opened with a whole lot of blameshifting and notations about how everybody agrees with Shorthands and everybody is eager to do what he wants.
I'm more than a little dubious about that latter proposition.
Damn little in the way of explanation about how he's gonna solve the Paki problem, how's he gonna make them fix his Taliban problem for him.
Virtually nothing on that. He appears to think it'll just happen ‘cause that's what he wants to happen.
That probably ain't gonna happen.
Lee:
"Damn little in the way of explanation about how he's gonna solve the Paki problem, how's he gonna make them fix his Taliban problem for him.
Virtually nothing on that. He appears to think it'll just happen ‘cause that's what he wants to happen. That probably ain't gonna happen."
Here's an "analysis" of sort, if you can call it that, which loosely explains the how and it's meant to work and why it might:
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/08/21/trumps-afghanistan-war-strategy-expected-to-increase-pressure-on-pakistan/
I think the one thing that article got right is Pakistan is playing a double game. But I don't think any of the measures suggested (or speculated - I don't know how "in the know" the interviewee actually is) will change much.
I think the Taliban have the advantage of controlling the timeline. They can drag this out for generations and need only not be completely defeated. The US's patience with ths costly effort is limited.
The Pakistanis know that, and they are probably pretty OK with it and not too eager to make any dramatic changes. They might make some changes for show, but it will still be within the limits of their double game and not meant to change the actual outcome.
So yeah, I pretty much agree with your conclusion on the matter.
Then of course it's not even entirely clear that Pakistan could "solve the Taliban problem" to begin with, even if theis government wanted to. They suffered some severe backlash from their domestic Taliban/Jihadi/Radical groups when they were deemed too accomodating to the US in the past. That whole Swat-valley uprising, what was it, some 7-8 years ago? Probably spooked them quite a bit. Also who really runs the show there in a crisis situation, the government or the ISI?
That's not an analysis by Breitbart, it's a dust cloud. They conclude that:
"The lack of a timeline will also help convince Pakistan to begin
behaving.
“‘It serves to warn the Pakistan Army that the U.S. is in Afghanistan to
stabilize the situation and we’re not about to leave.’”
That's not what Shorthands actually said, what he said was:
"However, our commitment is not unlimited, and our support is not
a blank check."
I didn't hear his speach Lee.
Link?
Google is your friend.
direct link
Shorthands has been wanting a ‘win’ here lately so that his dedicated Trumpkins can get ‘so tired of winning’ that they'll ask him to lose a few, as promised during his campaign.
In service to that thought, he's apparently preparing to announce that the border fencing that's already up in some areas, and been up since Dubya was President, is actually part of The Great Wall of Trump that he's been promising to build. link
Turns out he's winning so great that he actually won that one fifteen years ago.
Show starts in 15 minutes.
I missed it. Yes, that was intentional. There is very little that Trump has to say right about now that I really want to listen to. I spent my time immersed in Before the Fall, by Noah Hawley, which I finally found some time to start. Very good.
I have to wonder if Trump's core supporters are even noticing little things like this?
The Trump administration has halted a study of the health effects of a common mining technique in Appalachia, which is believed to deposit waste containing toxic minerals in ground waters.
A letter from the Interior Department directed the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine to "cease all work" on a study of the potential health risks of mountaintop removal mining for people living near surface coal mine sites in central Appalachia. The Interior Department acknowledged in a statement that it had "put on hold" $1 million in funding for the two-year project as part of a review of its grants, which is focused on "responsibly using taxpayer dollars."
Or this?
Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin's wife Louise Linton is facing a backlash for an Instagram post -- later deleted -- that touted the couple's wealth.
The post began with a glamorous photo of Linton stepping off an official government plane on a trip to Kentucky with her husband, who was there to discuss tax reform with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and visit Fort Knox.
Dressed in all white and carrying a handbag and silk scarf, the Scottish-born actress and producer tagged a series of luxury designers, including Hermes, Roland Mouret, Tom Ford and Valentino.
"Great #daytrip to #Kentucky! #nicest #people #beautiful #countryside #usa," she wrote.
Instagram user Jenni Miller, a mother of three from Oregon, took issue with the post, commenting, "Glad we could pay for your little getaway. #deplorable"
Personally, I don't think I want to live in the class divide that seems to be widening under Trump and his followers. It's starting to give me heartburn.
He appears to think it'll just happen ‘cause that's what he wants to happen.
It is the Trump alternate reality. Arrogance personified.
The NewYorkTimes has posted a piece that is almost certain to have Shorthands and Mitch McConnell both denouncing ‘leaks’ (political not national security stuff) while otherwise trying to both pin the other one for the fact that Republicans aren't getting anything done and somehow simultaneously not comment for public attribution at all. (Unless, of course, Shorthands decides to have himself a twitterburst.) Gonna be a hard trick to pull off.
The problem that Trump has is that he believes he is the boss, period. Everyone should listen to him and do what he says. But this is a democracy, where many people have a say, including Congress. McCain was right to remind the president, and members of Congress, that the Congress has just as much power as the Executive Branch. Our Constitution was written that way for a reason. And Mr. Trump embodies that reason.
Lee:
"Google is your friend.
direct link"
I guess I was a bit lazy there.
As for the speech I think it was a pretty good one. But just as you said, while the "what" part was pretty clear the "how" part was hardly even adressed.
The most positive part IMO is the very clear stance against "nation building". That's because I think that trying to remake a place like for instance Afghanistan to a new place modelled on western democracy is bound to fail. That scope is way too broad. The measurements for success or faliure are too many, and may even be contradictory to eachother.
Trump lays out a much narrower set of goals. That's IMO wise. But even those narrower goals aren't that easy and the "how" part is still not explained.
The Pakistan issue, which is important, was left glaringly unexplained.
"As for the speech I think it was a pretty good one."
It was a teleprompter speech. That means:
1. Somebody else wrote it, probably without contribution from Shorthands.
2. He doesn't mean it, even if he knew what was in it before he saw it on the teleprompter, which is not a sure bet.
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