I have been busy with real life tasks
so haven't had the opportunity to consider a new post, until now.
But, oh my, does there seem to be a plethora of topics to discuss.
We have the multiple police shootings in the United States, which led
to protests, and more violence. We have the aftermath of the Brexit
vote starting to ripple through economic activity and the political
spectrum. We have had a truck attack in France, resulting in mass
casualties. We have had a coup attempt in Turkey. I
simply could not pick. But as I considered my topic I realized that
some of those events do actually have something in common. Except,
perhaps, for the terror attack in France all of the other events seem
to be symptoms of divisions within various countries. I qualify the
terror attack with that “perhaps” because it too seems in a way
to be a symptom of divisions between peoples. The division in that
case being between moderates and extremists.
People
are not all alike, they have different beliefs, different dreams,
different problems. So how do we deal with the differences? I think
if a country has a wise government it listens to the people. While
we can't please all of the people all of the time it is expected that
all of the people should be given the respect and due process that is
necessary for a country to continue to function successfully. So I
have listened to a couple videos that I wanted to share with you.
The
first is a Sky News Special on the aftermath of the Brexit vote.
(Yes, you know who, I wrote “the” before Brexit. Lol!). I
thought it a decently balanced report with voices from both sides of
the issue weighing in. It runs about 26 minutes.
The
next is a Town Hall discussion that President Obama engaged in
recently regarding race relations here in the States. It too was a
nicely balanced event allowing all voices to be heard. It's about an
hour long, but there are some very interesting viewpoints expressed
that are worth hearing.
We
will always struggle with differences. It is how we respond to those
differences, and resolve the problems that arise, that will
differentiate a peaceful, prosperous country from one that slides
into chaos and anarchy, or a dictatorship.
241 comments:
1 – 200 of 241 Newer› Newest»I don't get the scare quotes on the definite article (‘the’) regarding the Brexit vote. I know Petes predicted it'd go the other way, but is he now arguing (in the background obviously) that it's somehow not real?
I read now that Erdogan took the opportunity to sack roughly 2000 judges based on the attempted coup:
http://en.trend.az/world/turkey/2558814.html
In Turkey there's the state and the "deep state", and has been for decades. The "deep state" traditionally also had a puppet controlling the state. The "deep state" are folks in the judiciary and military who support the Kemal Attaturk inspired secular regime (and most likely their own benefits also). The state however has become ever more Islamist, after Erdogans AKP won general elections and was allowed by the "deep state" to govern.
Now the state, under Erdogan and with popular support, has been able to push the "deep state" back for some time. Obviously this coup was an attempt to reverse that, but it seems to have failed. And so Erdogan will take this opportunity to strike hard at any further would be coup makers. He'll attempt a purge, as you can see in the article above.
Lynnette: "People are not all alike, they have different beliefs, different dreams, different problems. So how do we deal with the differences?"
Easy. Well not easy in practice any longer but the answer is actually easy. DO NOT MIX INCOMPATIBLE IDEAS OR PEOPLE.
Let arabs who believe in Islam live in arabia and practice Islam. Let Europeans who are mostly pretty secular live in Europe and drink beer and whatnot. Do NOT try and mix the two.
"DO NOT MIX INCOMPATIBLE IDEAS OR PEOPLE."
Lynnette brought us a clip on the Brexit and another one on racial tensions in the United States. I don't think howlin’ ‘bout ‘arabs who believe in Islam’ is applicable to either of those issues.
You may want to save that answer for a question to which it is actually applicable?
Lee: "Lynnette brought us a clip on the Brexit and another one on racial tensions in the United States."
Well, Lynnette also wrote:
"We have the multiple police shootings in the United States, which led to protests, and more violence. We have the aftermath of the Brexit vote starting to ripple through economic activity and the political spectrum. We have had a truck attack in France, resulting in mass casualties. We have had a coup attempt in Turkey."
I know it's a habit among americans not being able to take the time to actually read stuff that's written but only watch the TV and get all their info from the tube. I did however hold YOU to higher standards. Perhaps I was wrong.
I DID answer Lynnettes question. You shot that answer down because it according to you was irrelevant to the movie-clips Lynnette posted.
Well, good job Captain' Apparatnich Censor Lee C.
"We have had a coup attempt in Turkey."
Perhaps you need to remember that the Turks are not Arabs?
And, the Tunisian guy may or may not have been an Arab, but he appears to have been mostly just an angry loser and his rampage having little to do with any particular belief in Islam.
Lee: "Perhaps you need to remember that the Turks are not Arabs?"
First of all I think I know way better than you the different eurasian groupings there are. Second: what's even the point of your trying-to-sound-informed comment?
Obviously Lynnettes post is about strife and diversions all across the place, and not limited to the actual spots she mentions. Duh!
"First of all I think I know way better than you the different eurasian
groupings there are."
That's highly unlikely, and totally irrelevant anyway.
"Second: what's even the point of your trying-to-sound-informed
comment?"
I was pointing out that invective against Arabs, immigrants, and Islam is not always the answer no matter what the question. You seem to need reminded of that.
I know Petes predicted it'd go the other way, but is he now arguing (in the background obviously) that it's somehow not real?
No, he was just telling me that across the water they just say "Brexit" rather than "the Brexit". A difference in terminology or just the way we all word things. Kind of an amusing, and irrelevant, difference, really.
DO NOT MIX INCOMPATIBLE IDEAS OR PEOPLE.
I am sure there are many marriages out there that have ended just because of this. But there are others that, with counseling and real effort, have come through the fires and have grown stronger.
I have to wonder sometimes if we are not, at times, incompatible because we fear different ideas or people who do not look exactly like us.
Whatever the reason, I should think it would be preferable to try to get along rather than to continually fight and try to tear each other down.
From the previous comments section:
[Marcus]: I have had some bad experiences with new immigrants but not that many and frankly not too bad either (and living in Malmö I get my fair share of interactions). But I'm a 40+ YO male. I tend to get respect, and I demand it, which is why I get it. Women and girls - not so much, as I have linked to repeatedly. I do NOT like the way my town is changing.
Fair enough. I know that I would not like to feel unsafe in my town either, which I think is what you are saying about the women of Malmo. I will also say that I do commend you for standing up for them. It is up to those who are native to the region to show and teach, either through some kind of social intervention, or through the law, that there is behavior that is not welcome or allowed. Some change may be fine, such as increased economic opportunity via new businesses that immigrants may open, but other change, such as and increase in crime is not.
I was just looking at my local TV schedule for next week. I seldom do that, but it is the week of the Republican Convention. I notice that the broadcast channels are not carrying the goings on except for a single one hour stretch from 9:00 to 10:00 pm (Central Time), and the local CBS affiliate isn't carrying it at all, not even for the hour. The only exception is the local PBS affiliate which is going wall-to-wall on its secondary broadcast channel.
I guess the advertisers reckon public interest in the Trump show will be somewhat muted.
I know it's a habit among americans not being able to take the time to actually read stuff that's written but only watch the TV and get all their info from the tube.
Actually, it seems to be increasingly likely that Americans are getting their information via the internet. However, I have been pleased to note that there are people who refuse to give up on paper books, rather than use an electronic reader. :)
I guess the advertisers reckon public interest in the Trump show will be somewhat muted.
Perhaps they have noticed that the Trump show is shallow and somewhat repetitious. Given the fast moving events unfolding it takes someone that has some background knowledge of foreign affairs to respond well.
I have seen that Erdogan is demanding the extradition of a cleric residing here in the States, blaming him for being behind the coup attempt. He denies any involvement. I see the need for a delicate balancing act by the US. Something I doubt Trump would be good at.
I don't think he cares. The entire point was to insult Americans across the board. It began and ended with that; the accuracy of his statement is entirely beside the point to him.
You slipped a comment in there on me. I was responding to your 3:27 am comment.
As for Erdoğan wanting the cleric from Pennsylvania, he's going after that entire political movement and it would be incongruous to not demand the extradition of their leader. Also, he's setting us up for additional vilification as he consolidates his power; he's not going to let this opportunity go to waste. He's gonna make a power grab, and we're gonna be cast as the enemy in that process.
Da’esh has claimed credit for the mad trucker rampage in Nice. I suspect they've come to the conclusion that the French authorities aren't going to tie the mad trucker to an alternate jihadi group and decided to lay claim to what seemed to them to likely be a maverick operation nobody could prove wasn't theirs.
He's gonna make a power grab, and we're gonna be cast as the enemy in that process.
It does seem likely. I think if there were any people who answered his call to come out to the streets in an effort to defend the democratic process of electing a President they may find they will be sadly disappointed.
I suspect we may have to be prepared to remove ourselves from Incirlik and possibly Turkey from NATO if that is the case. Perhaps Erdogan will enjoy being allied with Russia instead.
... decided to lay claim to what seemed to them to likely be a maverick operation nobody could prove wasn't theirs.
It does appear that way. Kind of odd, since they usually don't lay claim to something that wasn't theirs. But I suppose that catch all phrase "inspired by" works just as well to get them the publicity. I note that the man who shot the police in Dallas made a point of saying specifically that he wasn't affiliated with any group. Perhaps he was military veteran enough to not want to be thought of as allied with Daesh. Too bad he didn't consider that there might have been former brothers in arms among those he killed.
Lynnette: "I suspect we may have to be prepared to remove ourselves from Incirlik and possibly Turkey from NATO if that is the case. Perhaps Erdogan will enjoy being allied with Russia instead."
There is something to that, actually. The turkish foreign minister has reportedly claimed that the pilot who shot down the russian fighter jet was from this group behind the coup and that the coup makers, or the "parallel state" were responsible for the breakdown in relations with Russia.
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160716/1043108695/turkey-coup-pilot-russia.html
I kinda doubt the truth of that, but it does seem Erdogan will at least attempt to use this as a way to mend fences with Russia.
Erdoğan did is grovel for Putin back early in the year. RT.com This is just a little gilding on the lily.
…did his grovel…"
And now Turkish state media has announced that Erdoğan and Putin will be having a face-to-face, sit-down with one another this coming August.
I see that my link to RT.com doesn't find RT.com. Anyway, I had the date wrong, it was June not January that Erdoğan had issued the official apology to Putin.
A number of police officers have been shot in Baton Rouge.
I kinda doubt the truth of that, but it does seem Erdogan will at least attempt to use this as a way to mend fences with Russia.
I rather think Erdogan is adept at using current events to his advantage, or what he thinks is his advantage. That the report you cited was from Sputnik apparently seems to mean that Putin has accepted Erdogan's apology from January. Birds of a feather do flock together.
Four shot; two dead. They were responding to a call. It's not clear if the call was faked to draw in officers or if somebody took advantage of an opportunity, or exactly what went down, but there's two dead cops already and the shooter's still out there.
Lynnette: "remove ourselves from Incirlik and possibly Turkey from NATO"
I think that's unlikely at this point. The first step would be for Turkey to ask the US to withdraw its tactical nuclear weapons from Incirlik, and that hasn't even been mentioned yet. So no, actions along those lines are not lightly taken and certainly not over a coup attempt or some harsh words.
Update from Baton Rouge. Three dead cops; three wounded; two of them expected to make it; don't know yet if the third one will pull through. One shooter dead; no other shooters suspected, but the investigation is ongoing.
"Hate takes too much energy"
Kristi Vick, Godal, Jackson's neighbor, told NBC News that Jackson was pained by the events surrounding Sterling's death, including the protests that followed.
"He loved his city," Godal said. "It is an absolute tragedy. He was a police officer but he was also a proud black man."
Why is it always the good people who bear the brunt of others misguided actions?
So no, actions along those lines are not lightly taken and certainly not over a coup attempt or some harsh words.
Perhaps not. That was my over reaction to Erdogan's dragging us into what is obviously an internal Turkish matter that he doesn't have a handle on. Turkey has some very deep problems which his authoritarian bent won't solve any time soon. He might crack down on the coup plotters, but in the long run that will just generate more hatred. There is a reason coups are not unheard of in that country.
[Chump]: "I know Petes predicted it'd go the other way, but is he now arguing (in the background obviously) that it's somehow not real?"
Whatever the hell yore smokin' is not improving yer grasp on reality (let alone yore algebra ;-)
[Marcus]: "Let arabs who believe in Islam live in arabia and practice Islam. Let Europeans who are mostly pretty secular live in Europe and drink beer and whatnot. Do NOT try and mix the two."
Are you also smokin' something, or just boozing again? Your knowledge seems to go backward in these episodes. You do know that most Arabs don't come from Arabia? And that most Muslims (80%) aren't Arabs? I presume they'd be as offended as I am to be told that Europeans should be secular and drink beer. What about European Muslims, like the Bosniaks, who are as European as you are... perhaps even more so if you consider that their paleolithic forebears were probably in place while Sweden was still an iceberg with a bit of dirt underneath. :-)
Saw a BBC roving interview with Trump supporters in Ohio and Pennsylvania. One guy who was going to the Republican convention said he wouldn't be carrying a gun with him "because of medical conditions", but he felt safe knowing that everybody else there would be armed. Ah yes ... that crazy American logic that says the reason that gun violence is a leading cause of death is because not enough people carry guns.
I can see why Mr. Trump supporter would be sniffy about Evil Preznit Obama and his Chief Witch Hillary who want to take away his right to bear arms. Fortunately youtube is full of patriotic Americans educating the police force about the citizen's right to openly carry assault rifles on the street. White citizens, that is. Somehow the black ones don't seem to get the same level of tolerance and respec' from the cops.
I guess I can kinda see it from the cops point of view. If I saw somebody toting an assault rifle I'd be inclined to shoot first and ask questions later. It seems unreasonable to have to distinguish between a law-abiding citizen waving a deadly weapon and one bent on violence. Nor would I be opposed to a bit of racial profiling after Dallas, and now Baton Rouge, plus the fact that black people are twice as likely to commit violent crime in general.
So the simple solution is to shoot the black guys. That certainly appears to be the modus operandi in the USA.
Normally I find Cenk Uygur an overbearing progressive smartass. This time he is right on the money -- with a few choice comparisons of gun-wavin' white guys (including mad/bad ones) versus what happened to Philando Castile in Minnesota.
"(let alone yore algebra ;-)"
Good to know it rankles you so. You're a pompous ass and it's good to know that gettin’ smoked on that one got so far under your skin; you so richly deserve it.
LOL. I don't know what "gettin' smoked" is but I presume it must be USA-ian for demonstratin' one's awesome mathematical superiority. I don't know why that would get under my skin though. I thoroughly enjoyed it, even if it was like goin' back to junior school.
I do feel a little guilty for makin' y'all resort to the embarrassin' lengths y'all did. Who knew that y'all would claim thousands of random people made an intentional error, jes' so y'all could be proved correct. Even children rarely resort to such fabrications.
Speakin' of which, and since we're all so fond of family psychiatry round here, pretty obvious your issue stems from a parent-child conflict y'all can't get over. Any perceived assertion of superiority is like a red rag to a bull to y'all. That's why y'all are so incensed about "the great and wonderful PeteS".
If it's any consolation to ya -- and it won't be -- I don't give a rats ass about havin' a vastly superior knowledge of maths to y'all. That's just a fact of life. It's like bein' able to run 100 metres faster'n'a three year old. It's no credit to a grown up. Hope it works out for ya some day that yer obstinacy complex gets fixed and ya can accept some teachin'.
"I don't know what ‘gettin' smoked’ is…"
Apparently not. You seem to make up for the lack with a rich fantasy life.
John Kerry has suggested that Erdoğan's crackdown on his political opposition has put Turkey's NATO membership at risk from. WaPo. Lynnette may not have been so premature as Marcus thinks.
We have a fourth acquittal in the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore (black kid who died in the back of a police paddy wagon in what can only be described as ‘suspicious’ circumstances). The cops who went for a jury trial wound up facing a hung jury, and they may or may not be retried, but four cops in a row have elected for a trial to the bench (to a single judge), and all four have been acquitted. NBCNews
I guess I can kinda see it from the cops point of view. If I saw somebody toting an assault rifle I'd be inclined to shoot first and ask questions later. It seems unreasonable to have to distinguish between a law-abiding citizen waving a deadly weapon and one bent on violence.
Unreasonable, perhaps, but difficult, certainly. One of the voices in the video I put in my post, "The President and the People", included a police chief who expressed a similar opinion. His request of the president was for him to push for gun reform. The problem, of course, is that one political party, who shall remain nameless, is dragging their feet, wrapping their position in the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution.
Dang it! I'm getting that unresponsive error again. *sigh*
Re: Freddie Gray: One cop asked for a jury and got a hung jury, just one.
Johnson, a flamboyant politician who led opposition to E.U. membership, arrived late Sunday, after his Royal Air Force plane had to make an emergency landing to deal with a technical problem.
Hmmm...I hope this isn't an omen of things to come...
The cops who went for a jury trial wound up facing a hung jury, and they may or may not be retried, but four cops in a row have elected for a trial to the bench (to a single judge), and all four have been acquitted.
If even a jury couldn't decide perhaps there is reasonable doubt. That's the problem with trying these cases in the media, you don't get all of the facts. It isn't a fair way to look at these cases, but it generates a lot of emotion, garnering ratings.
"That's the problem with trying these cases in the media…"
The problem with trying these cases in the courts is that the cops always get off. Cops grab up a healthy young black man; stuff him in a paddy wagon, and he shows up at the police station dead from a broken neck, and it's nobody's fault. Really?
Pakistani woman killed by her brother, who is proud of what he did. After watching her in the video "Ban" I might liken her to Kim Kardashian. Someone who was looking for fame by a more exhibitionist means. But not something you deserve the death penalty for. Pakistan has a long way to go.
It looks like Erdogan would be quite happy with reinstating the death penalty. Apparently NATO membership isn't really a factor for him. Probably why he's cozying up to Putin.
He won't get kicked out of NATO just for reinstituting the death penalty (we're in NATO), but it will disqualify Turkey for membership in the E.U.
The problem with trying these cases in the courts is that the cops always get off.
I understand. It is up to the elected officials to make sure the system works for all, not just some. It is up to the voters to elect those who will do that. If voters feel unsafe who are they likely to elect? A reformist or someone who will crack the whip on crime? Demonstrations are fine and get the point across, but violence will only piss people off.
He won't get kicked out of NATO just for reinstituting the death penalty (we're in NATO), but it will disqualify Turkey for membership in the E.U.
You're right, it is the lack of democratic principles that will do that.
"…but violence will only piss people off."
Perhaps I should point out that some of the people pissed off at unrestrained violence have taken to ambushing cops in retaliation?
Perhaps I should point out that some of the people pissed off at unrestrained violence have taken to ambushing cops in retaliation?
You can. And I would then point out that they are in turn pissing off the cops. So it is an endless cycle, unless we can find a way to break it.
Melania Trump is speaking now at the RNC, praising her husband's can do abilities.
*sigh*
It's a bad dream, right? I will wake up soon, won't I?
"It's a bad dream, right? I will wake up soon, won't I?"
I thought she did a fairly good job. Kept her poise (of course it was a friendly crowd--to the point of being a somewhat fawning crowd) and she managed to read her lines quite competently.
Horrible attack on train in Germany:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3696410/Man-attacks-21-people-AXE-train-Germany-shot-police.html
The 17 YO part we can probably take with a grain of salt, if the situation in Germany is anything like the one in Sweden with better benefits for "refugees" under 18.
"Horrible attack on train in Germany:"
Nobody raped?
Apparently Melania Trump also did a fairly competent job of reading parts of Michele Obama's speech from the 2008 Democratic Convention.
Lee: "Nobody raped?"
What an ugly comment. Innocent people in a train get attacked by an axe wielding fanatic and you seem to think it's appropriate to diminish this attack with a barbe at previous (quite serious) sexual assaults. Shame on you Lee!
Pete: "Are you also smokin' something, or just boozing again? Your knowledge seems to go backward in these episodes. You do know that most Arabs don't come from Arabia? And that most Muslims (80%) aren't Arabs? I presume they'd be as offended as I am to be told that Europeans should be secular and drink beer. What about European Muslims, like the Bosniaks, who are as European as you are... perhaps even more so if you consider that their paleolithic forebears were probably in place while Sweden was still an iceberg with a bit of dirt underneath. :-)"
Hogwash. You KNOW what I'm concerned about. The Bosniaks who came never came with a wave of rape and terror, did they? And a european very well could be secular and drink beer - IF he/she so choses - I never said they had to.
You KNOW very well, that the recent influx of immigrants is first of all much bigger and second that radical Islamists or even regular Islamists who might well becoe radicalised are a much bigger issue now than ever before.
How many mass sex assaults and how many terror attacks in the name of IS does it take for you to realise open borders is insanity?
You might think yourself humane, but it's prople like you who allow what will be coming, and it won't be pretty and it's just getting started.
Then, you of course can always bend a knee to an old man in the sky and really, really, really PRAY and hope for the best. Sorry, but the rest of us have to live in reality.
Maybe if Pete prays hard enough, confesses a few sins maybe, and lights a couple of candels and... I don't know, maybe whips himself across the back or something. Then maybe every muslim entering Europe will be a "moderate" one, and we'll all live in peace.
Because for sure: if white "christians" flooded muslim countries and behaved towards muslim women the way muslim men behaved towards european women in Cologne the muslims would for sure be tolerant and benevolent and hand out wellfare checks! No? We'd be ever so welcome and of course we could bring out religion and customs with us. Right?
Putin said it the best when KSA wanted to fund mosques in Russia: "Sure, you can build mosques here, and for everyone you build we'll finance and build an orthodox Christian church in Saudi Arabia".
That put a quick end to the mosque building ideas with regards to Russia, and it shows us a lot about how Islam tends to function.
"…you seem to think it's appropriate to diminish this attack with a
barbe at previous (quite serious) sexual assaults."
I think it's quite appropriate to direct barbs at a guy who dreams up and insists upon counting rapes that never happened.
"That put a quick end to the mosque building ideas with regards to
Russia…"
Putin stole that idea from the Norwegians.
No of course there have been no rapes you useful Dhimmi:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3692184/Cologne-New-Year-s-Eve-attack-victim-pregnant-raped.html
"The 18-year-old raped outside Cologne train station in mass sexual frenzy
She was thrown around a group of men before being thrown to the floor
As she was being raped, a second man was raping another girl next to her
Tried miming to other girl 'close your eyes' but rapist grabbed her face
The first teenage victim decided to have an abortion after falling pregnant
Only four convictions from 1,200 reported NYE sexual assaults in Germany"
All in all OK "refugee" behaviour according to Dhimmie Commie Lee C. Or maybe just OK when the victims are European? I bet a whole different song would be sung if the victims were Americans in America. Hypocrite bastard!
Lee: "Putin stole that idea from the Norwegians."
Really? I have never heard that before. Care to present us with some links?
"Really? I have never heard that before. Care to present us with
some links?"
That's the same thing you said last time I told you about it. (It's important to you to have something to praise Putin for I reckon--gives you an incentive to forget shit.)
Yeah, links; one link should be sufficient. If you need more, just remember: "Google is your friend." Knock yourself out.
"Hypocrite bastard!"
I'm not the one recycling the New Year's eve incidents in Cologne, Germany over and over and over again and pretending they're news every time.
The axe-wielding maniac in Germany posts a video clip:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/german-train-axe-attack-isis-8449327
All of us "unbelievers" are to be killed, because of what we (the US invasions) did to them, in the name of Allah.
Looks kinda older than 17 to me, to begin with. But Lee C feels any questioning of this mainiac residing in Europe is the wrong question to pose. And Pete goes even farther and wants as many such mainiacs as possibe given his "christian" stance on immigration. So yeah, were fucked. Now it's time for individual damage control.
"But Lee C feels any questioning of this mainiac residing in Europe
is the wrong question to pose."
Long as you're tilting at imaginary windmills like the above (and your fascist friendly tendency to see commies everywhere), yeah, you're fucked all right. Can't figure out where the real fight is, you're bound to lose.
Lee: "I'm not the one recycling the New Year's eve incidents in Cologne, Germany over and over and over again and pretending they're news every time.
"
No I'm sure you're bothered 'bout that. Perhaps we should've forgotten about 9/11 in one news cycle also? Because then it wouldn't have lasted even up until the attacks on the Taliban, much less up until the illegal invasion of Iraq.
Care to give us all a handy timetable of when a major attack is deemed not newsworthy?
Lee: "Can't figure out where the real fight is, you're bound to lose."
Oh I know where that fight is. Problem is MY side doesn't have a majority. Yet.
We'll get there though.
Perhaps it should occur to you that the relevance or not of the Cologne incidents is sometimes context related and not a function of time at all. Give that idea some consideration. Perhaps some wisdom will find you eventually (not holdin’ my breath).
"We'll get there though."
Not if you keep getting lost along the way.
Lee: "Perhaps it should occur to you that the relevance or not of the Cologne incidents is sometimes context related and not a function of time at all."
Well... I try think of it and I don't know what you mean. Clearly it's not a function of time, as it hadn't happened before and wouldn't have had happpened if Germay was still german (in the area we speak of).
It WAS however a direct result os mass gatherings of arab muslims. Most of them north africans but others as well. Most of them recent arrivals on the "refugee" train but some second generation arabs as well. Those were the culprits - gropers and rapists.
And no - it has never happened that such a thing took place amongst native europeans, at least not in peace times.
"Well... I try think of it and I don't know what you mean."
Well…. It was worth a shot. But, if the concept's over your head, then it's just over your head. Oh well….
Lee: "Not if you keep getting lost along the way."
Victor Orban in Hungary, Beata Maria Szydło in Poland, Miloš Zeman in the Chech Republic, they're already there. Goood leaders in Slovakia, Romania and Austria are on the way. So the east is won.
Marine Le Pen will win in France in 2017 and we have solid nationalists in parliament in Denmark (Dansk Folkeparti), Norway (Fremskrittspartiet) and Finland (Sannfinländarna) that are aleady in or leading their parliaments.
Geert Wilders in the Netherlands and the Five Star Movement in Italy.
And of course the rather tame by comparasiion Sweden Democrats here at home.
ALL of the are acending. ALL are gainint support. So no, we're not losing our way at all, but a new right will arise.
And with Donald Trump winning in the USA in 4 month's time it'll be all thne easier.
"Hungary…Poland…Chech Republic…Slovakia…Romania…Austria"
All new to democracy having recently escaped the Soviet Union. That explains them. You are a Swede. That explains you.
So no, we're not losing our way at all, but a new right will arise.
If we forget history, we are destined to repeat it.
I thought she did a fairly good job. Kept her poise (of course it was a friendly crowd--to the point of being a somewhat fawning crowd) and she managed to read her lines quite competently.
She is a beautiful talking head...
Apparently Melania Trump also did a fairly competent job of reading parts of Michele Obama's speech from the 2008 Democratic Convention.
...who knows how to act a part.
[Chumpy]: "Hungary…Poland…Chech Republic…Slovakia…Romania…Austria" ... All new to democracy having recently escaped the Soviet Union. That explains them. You are a Swede. That explains you.
And tell us, Chumpy, when exactly did this escape of Austria from the Soviet union occur? Did ya larn that the same place ya larned yore algebra? You are a chump. I guess that explains you.
You are correct. Austria escaped the Soviets at the end of WWII. However, this has nothing to do with algebra. So you don't get any points on your algebra (which you do sorely need).
Lee: "All new to democracy having recently escaped the Soviet Union. That explains them."
No, knowing about loss of sovreignty, knowing how bad things can get, that explains them.
"You are a Swede. That explains you."
For sure not. My views and opinions are certainly not in the mainstream in Sweden, yet. But as I said, we're getting there.
The thing is that if previous "elites" had been doing right by the poeples we never would have needed this now urgently needed change. If you listen to Social Democrats back from the 70's they say much the same as the Sweden Democrats say today, about social cohesion and their previous mantra "do your duty, demand your rights!"
But once they and most other parties got overrun by career politicians and started on a course of "identity politics" and paid more attention to the citizens of other nations than their own, well then a backlash was inevitable.
You have do-gooders, like PeteS (presumably), fighting this neo-liberal fight of everything for everyone regardless of their rights to it. And the stronger they pull the pendulum in one direction the stronger it'll swing in the other, once it swings, and that's just about now. It's happening now, that the pendulum is swinging back.
Look for instance at Poland, where the new government sacked almost all "journalists" in their public news organs. There was a huge wail across Europe against that, especially from journalists in other nations.
We in Sweden have a "public service" media. 70% of its "journalists" claim to vote V (20%) (Vänsterpartiet - former Communists) or MP (50%) (Miljöpartiet - Green Commis). The rest are probably left leaning Social Democrats.
Now wouldn't it be sound to have any "public service" media actually reflect at least somewhat the political leanings of the people who are FORCED to pay for it? I think that.
As it stands today MP who in polls rate around 4% have a 50% representation in our public media. That cannot stand, and we will have to make purges just like they did in Poland. And the sooner the better.
IMF predicts greater growth in the UK than in Germany or France in coming years:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3698476/IMF-clowns-admit-got-wrong-Brexit-doom-gloom-warnings-saying-British-economy-grow-faster-Germany-France.html
I can't be the only one to question the doom and gloom prophecies intended to scare Brittons against BREXIT.
As I said before, their main worry is probably how well the UK will do, not that the UK will do badly.
"We in Sweden have a ‘public service’ media."
I presume that's limited to the broadcast media and that the old-fashioned hard-copy paper based news is still independent and privately owned.
Trump JR gave a damned good speach (for that crowd and for TV crowds):
https://youtu.be/YshWb3QMDtk
Look out for that guy to become President in 20 years or so...
Lee: "I presume that's limited to the broadcast media and that the old-fashioned hard-copy paper based news is still independent and privately owned."
Yes, Public Service is TV and Radio only.
And you're raggin’ on Americans for getting their info ‘from the tube’. Yeah, right. At least our broadcast media isn't government run.
Trump Jr's speech looked good on account of being compared with the clown show that was on display Monday night. Trump Jr. managed to avoid hysterics throughout his speech, clear to the end, made him look good by comparison. He wasn't very convincing though.
African American guy with a sound head on top of his shouldres:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47-epAfUKE
I'd love to have a beer with that smart fellow!
[Chumpy]: "Hungary…Poland…Chech Republic…Slovakia…Romania…Austria" ... All new to democracy having recently escaped the Soviet Union.
[Extra Chumpy]: "Austria escaped the Soviets at the end of WWII."
Dope. WWII had nothing to do with Austria's introduction to democracy. It is no younger a democracy than twenty other European and near-Eastern countries.
We were talking about their escape from the Soviets--they managed to avoid Soviet dominance at the end of WWII.
Do try to keep up with where the conversation stands--try to stick with what really is, not whatever's currently floating ‘round in your private fantasies.
"All new to democracy having recently escaped the Soviet Union."
I've seen y'all paint yoreself into a corner enough times to know what depths of irrationality ya will plumb to try to extricate yoreself. Don't let me stop ya makin' a chump of yoreself. It's inevitable.
"All new to democracy having recently escaped…"
Except, as you pointed out, for Austria, who escaped the Soviet power grab somewhat earlier than ‘recently’. And, no has nothing to do with algebra, so you can quit trying so hard to make it into more than it was. I shoulda left Austria off of that list. End of…
And, before I got sidetracked by Petes' obvious frustration over the fact that Austria isn't an algebra problem and never will be…
I've been watching the Republican Convention tonight on the PBS secondary channel (their "educational" channel). Well, I've had it on as I wonder to and fro across the house…. It looks like the Republicans are having a serious problem finding a theme for the night. They stumble across Hating Hillary with a certain regularity, and that cheers ‘em all up, but nothin’ else seems much to animate these people tonight. I just go done watching a video speculation that the late Neil Armstrong, American astronaut for those of you who don't recognize the name, would be endorsing Trump were he not inconveniently dead and unable to endorse in person (also the Wright Brothers)--these people are havin’ trouble findin’ a theme for the night.
Hmmm...apparently there were some fireworks at the RNC tonight. This might have been interesting to watch.
Ted Cruz sensationally withheld an endorsement of Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention Wednesday, earning a chorus of boos from the floor before he was upstaged in a power play by the GOP nominee himself.
It was indeed interesting to watch. I got on my DVR so I might watch it again even.
By the way, Melania Trump did not attend tonight's proceedings; no-show. I suspect she'll have to be there tomorrow night, but, depending on her pre-nupe, maybe not.
[Chump]: "I shoulda left Austria off of that list. End of…"
Well knock me down with a feather! Hey, see how easy that was!
[Chump]: "And, no has nothing to do with algebra, so you can quit trying so hard to make it into more than it was."
Progress is progress. Let's not spoil it.
And now to other matters ...
[Marcus]: "You have do-gooders, like PeteS (presumably), fighting this neo-liberal fight of everything for everyone regardless of their rights to it."
Huh? Where did you get that impression? Though I'm not sure I even understand the "neo-liberal" characterisation which I would have thought of as an economic policy. What you are talking about sounds like a "progressive" to me, and I am rarely accused of being one of those.
On the other hand, I hold no truck with the nasty elements of the European right either. Your pal Viktor Orbán may not be an out-and-out fascist -- I simply don't know -- but he has friends who are. There are worrying trends in Poland too, abetted by some of my Catholic pals, tragically. (When caught between a Communist rock and a Fascist hard place, elements within the Catholic Church have historically made some pretty awful decisions, and now seem in danger of repeating them).
"Well knock me down with a feather! Hey, see how easy that was!"
You are a bloody moron. Check the post at 07:34:00 am just above. You fought it for another almost 13 hours. Moron!
Word is Ted Cruz told Donald Trump as late as Monday that he was not going to endorse Trump if given a prime-time speaking slot. And Trump put him on the podium anyway. Not quite bright. Ranks right up there on the ‘not-quite-bright list’ with Romney allowing Clint Eastwood to talk to a chair for 10 or 15 minutes, or whatever it was.
Pete: "Huh? Where did you get that impression? Though I'm not sure I even understand the "neo-liberal" characterisation which I would have thought of as an economic policy. What you are talking about sounds like a "progressive" to me, and I am rarely accused of being one of those."
OK, I confess I might have erroneously labeled you. I have however, from your comments, put you in the "leftist" camp, with regards to politics in Europe.
Pete: "On the other hand, I hold no truck with the nasty elements of the European right either. Your pal Viktor Orbán may not be an out-and-out fascist -- I simply don't know -- but he has friends who are."
I do like what I've seen from Orban so far. I do like Hungary's politics. I think he was by far the best politician in Europe during last years "refugee" crisis. But I also remember you linking to some supposed allies of him where thoughts I do not stand by were voiced (Looked like old guard fanatics, and may not be relevant today). So I guess it's a matter of which direction he and Hungary will turn from here on that will decide my opinion.
Pete: "There are worrying trends in Poland too, abetted by some of my Catholic pals, tragically. (When caught between a Communist rock and a Fascist hard place, elements within the Catholic Church have historically made some pretty awful decisions, and now seem in danger of repeating them)."
So you say. Care to elaborate? Myself I find it a refreshing idea that the media in a country, if it is a public one, should somewhat represent the ideas of the populace at hand.
Look at my previous comments, and about the fact that MP in Sweden gets about 4% in polls but gets about 50% in polls amongst "public service" journalists. You can't think that's fair can you?
Also my analogy with a pendulum drawn in one direction swinging back in the other is IMO something to take into consideration.
Lee: "Word is Ted Cruz told Donald Trump as late as Monday that he was not going to endorse Trump if given a prime-time speaking slot. And Trump put him on the podium anyway. Not quite bright."
Or quite smart indeed. Trump later on said he let Cruz on regardless and just brushed it off as no big deal. Who got out on top of that do you imagine?
Trump's surrogates were all over the morning news trying to generate outrage at Cruz, hoping that story would intercept the other story, i.e. that the guy who came in second in the Republican primary refused to endorse Trump. They feel the need to spin it, and hard, into an anti-Cruz movement. So, who do you think won the night if they're out in force the next morning, trying to win it back?
And, I would point out that the black guy in Marcus' video doesn't do any better with numbers than did Petes in his Einstein project and subsequent ‘math fallacy’ fiasco. Obama never got a majority of the white vote in spite of the black guy's clear assertion that he did; Obama got I think it was 43% in the 2008 election and only 38% in 2012. Nowhere close to a white majority either time. Neither of them can get their numbers anywhere close to correct, and so, of course, Marcus leans towards favoring them both. And he wants to tell us that Trump won the Trump/Cruz fuss on account of Trump said so.
"Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump sent alarm rippling
through Eastern Europe after he said the U.S. would only defend
NATO states attacked by Russia if those nations “have fulfilled their
obligations to us,” his strongest comments to date on the military
alliance’s future if he enters the White House."
Bloomberg
Lee: " Obama never got a majority of the white vote in spite of the black guy's clear assertion that he did; Obama got I think it was 43% in the 2008 election and only 38% in 2012. Nowhere close to a white majority either time. Neither of them can get their numbers anywhere close to correct, and so, of course, Marcus leans towards favoring them both"
You might be right. You're probably right, as I expect you would've checked the numbers. I still, regardless of digits here or there, liked his general ideas.
Lee: "They feel the need to spin it, and hard, into an anti-Cruz movement. So, who do you think won the night if they're out in force the next morning, trying to win it back?"
Any media is good media. Once again Trump gets for free what other candidates needed hundreds of millions to achieve. Haven't you got that yet? I'm surprised then. I thought you were at least clever Lee. I knew you weren't very knowledgable but I thought you to be somewhat clever.
Gothia Cup - one of the largest youth football tournaments being played in Gothenburg Sweden will likely ban Marocco from future games.
Why?
Well because not only playing football their team aided by their 36 YO team leader decided to practice arabian taHarrush and sexually assault pre teen swedish girls:
http://www.friatider.se/36-arig-marockan-begars-haktad-for-taharrush-pa-gothia-cup
The whole team and their 36 YO leader ganged up on young girls and sexually assaulted them.
Of course Lee will say that was no big deal. We here feel otherwise though....
"Any media is good media."
Yeah? Ya think so do ya? Bill Cosby been benefiting from all that free media here lately ya think?
"Lee will say that was no big deal."
Visiting with your imaginary Lee I see.
Lee. "Yeah? Ya think so do ya? Bill Cosby been benefiting from all that free media here lately ya think?"
You should love him at the very least. You seem to have a soft heart for rapists.
Why don't you give your imaginary friend a different name, like ‘Marco’ or something?
If there's any casual readers come by they might actually get the mistaken notion that your imaginary friend is me instead of being just another of those voices in your head as is the case.
17 YO girl dragged into the woods and raped by three men:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article23209241.ab
Close to a HBV-home it says. That would be a home for "unaccompanied refuge children" which in real speak is a home for 20-30 YO economic muslim immigrants posing as under 18 "children" to get better benefits.
Lee C would undoubtedly find that the swedish young girl was at fault somehow, and that the grown muslim men who raped here were in their rights to do so.
I don't quite know what it s with Lee and the raping of white women but he seems to really like it. A fetish of some sort? Maybe. I find it and him sick though.
I notice that you are the one who keeps bringing the subject up, all the while telling us that your imaginary friend, the voice inside your head ‘seems to really like it’.
Once again Trump gets for free what other candidates needed hundreds of millions to achieve.
There were two people involved in that fracas, Trump and Cruz. This morning I am reading all about Cruz saying he will not endorse anyone who attacks his family. Even people who don't like him are applauding his stance. Given Republicans emphasis on "family values' (real or not) Cruz is appealing to those where that actually does mean something. I think the publicity round went to Cruz with that.
"I think the publicity round went to Cruz with that."
This is Trump's very own show. Given that he's even in this particular fight the morning after, that means it got away from him--he's not runnin’ his own show effectively. This is not what he wanted to be talking about the morning of the day he gets up in front of that big flashy video panel. (I wonder if that thing's connected to the internet, and if it's hackable? I've been wondering that since it went twitchy right in the middle of young Trumps' paean to his father last night.)
It was indeed interesting to watch. I got on my DVR so I might watch it again even.
I suspect if I look hard enough I can dig up something on YouTube. :)
By the way, Melania Trump did not attend tonight's proceedings; no-show.
Not sure if hiding will do any good with that one. Granted, she didn't write the speech, but supposedly she and the speech writer had went over past speeches by people she admired. You would think she would actually remember some of the wording.
And needing to scrounge around past speeches to find words to, supposedly, express your sincere feelings doesn't come across as very sincere.
This is not what he wanted to be talking about the morning of the day he gets up in front of that big flashy video panel. (I wonder if that thing's connected to the internet, and if it's hackable? I've been wondering that since it went twitchy right in the middle of young Trumps' paean to his father last night.)
Oh, now there's an interesting thought. I might actually tune in tonight, just to see if anything odd occurs. Maybe he will be photo bombed by a Cruz image floating behind him. lol!
I will have to check out your links tonight, Marcus.
"Not sure if hiding will do any good with that one."
I'm not sure ‘hiding’ is the correct way to look at it. She's been reluctant to engage in Trump's political campaign from the beginning--just not her thing. Background stories on her say she's actually not a very public person. Never has been much interested in personal publicity. Just doesn't like it; not a Kardashian personality type. But, Trump prevailed on her to give that intro speech. And then that got her a bunch of unfavorable publicity. It's quite possible that her reaction was more like, ‘Screw this; I should have stuck with my first instincts to stay the hell out of the political campaign. I didn't want to be here in the first place, and I don't have to stay here now. I didn't sign up for this crap.’
Melania Trump made it tonight, with the 9 year old.
Listening a little to Trump now. He's throwing out a lot of facts and figures, but I don't know how accurate they are. I am sure there will be fact checkers all over his speech.
The facts and figures I heard seemed highly suspect. However, he didn't do a whole speech with those, got to promising everything for everybody plus ponies. Little vague on how he's gonna deliver.
But, I thought he did a pretty good job. He proved he can read off a teleprompter like a pro even though he's new to those. And he delivered doom and gloom as well as any Republican in the last three presidential cycles. And he proved he can stick to the teleprompter when he really wants to.
In Kalmar (population 36K) where the gang-rape of a 17 YO girl that I linked to yesterday we got tow more gang-rapes last night.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article23211668.ab
A middle aged woman out picking mushrooms outside of town was assaulted and raped by several men. In central Kalmar in the middle of the night another Woman was also gang-raped.
Don't you just love the gratitude of the "refugees"? They are so happy they got asylum they thank us the best way they know how to - surprise-sex.
I think I've figured out why Marcus likes Trump, and why Petes thinks Trump's gonna win.
Trump lives in a dark and angry America. That's his normal habitat. And that's what draws both of our European friends to him. They share common, dystopian, outlooks.
A lot of US media seem as partisan and as polarised as the voting public. They are doing a good job of shooting themselves in the foot. Take the convention speech of Patricia Smith whose son was murdered in the infamous Benghazi incident. Now, you could put her accusations against Hillary down to the dotty imagination of a heartbroken mother. But there are ways of going about it. The way Chris Matthews of MSNBC put it was "I don't care what that woman has felt". A writer from GQ went further and said "I don’t care how many children Pat Smith lost, I would like to beat her to death".
It seems neither left nor right is interested in appeasing the other side, or being the voice of reason in what is already shaping up to be the most acrimonious campaign ever. The LA Times has actually run an op ed piece suggesting that if Trump gets elected there might have to be a coup to get rid of him. Talk about irresponsible!
It seems to me that partisan commentators (of all stripes) make the mistake of thinking that scorn and vitriol can defeat the other side, rather than galvanising it. I was very surprised to see that Michael Moore, of all people, was one of the very few on the left prepared to think the unthinkable.
[Chump]: "I think I've figured out why ... Petes thinks Trump's gonna win. Trump lives in a dark and angry America. That's his normal habitat. And that's what draws both of our European friends to him. They share common, dystopian, outlooks."
There's only one America. As I hinted above, it seems to be difficult at the moment for Americans to grasp that. You are showing the same trait. America is dark and angry. Perhaps it takes an outside perspective to see it. You are like the Brexiteers who projected all their problems on the EU. Yours are projected onto Trump and his supporters. America's perceived ills are their fault. (Seems you are even prepared to project some of the badness onto me, even though I've never said I am a Trump supporter, merely that he is going to win).
"A lot of US media seem as partisan and as polarised as the voting
public."
FoxNews showed the rest how to make major money in an environment where the competition was all losing market share. There have been several competitors seriously wanting to be the anti-FoxNews, the major money media on the left. So far nobody's been able to sew that position up, but they do keep trying. You mentioned MSNBC; that's one of the major strivers for the position of counter-FoxNews. They been chasing it for awhile.
There are, however, some actual news organizations still operating if one wants to avoid the partisan press. Just a matter of who ya watch. Being as I don't have cable and ain't interested in putting in satellite just to have many more channels I also don't watch, I don't generally see much of FoxNews nor MSNBC either one.
"…even though I've never said I am a Trump supporter, merely that
he is going to win…"
It would help if you'd take the time to learn how to read.
"I think I've figured out why Marcus likes Trump, and why Petes
thinks Trump's gonna win."
Lee C. @ Fri Jul 22, 06:07:00 am
[Chumpy]: "It would help if you'd take the time to learn how to read."
LOL. I'm sure y'all missed a calling as a Christian Evangelical, what with yore talent for out-of-context and incomplete quotations (of yer own stuff, no less).
[Chumpy]: "why ... Petes thinks Trump's gonna win... They share common, dystopian, outlooks"
Ah, now that seems a bit more in context. I think Trump's gonna win because I like the cut of his gib. Except it ain't true. I think Trump's gonna win because the evidence is pointin' in that direction. Science, not belief. Y'all should try it.
gib = jib ;-)
Now here are some dystopian outlooks:
Members Of The KKK, Black Lives Matter And Westboro Baptist Church Reportedly Throwing Urine At Each Other Outside RNC
LOL. It makes the topsy turvy world of conventional politics seem normal. You know, the one in which Hillary "progressives" are voting for the status quo, while Trump "conservatives" are voting for radical change.
"I think Trump's gonna win because the evidence is pointin' in that
direction."
The evidence you selectively filter for is pointing in that direction. The good evidence isn't. I'll let you explain your BS about it being science in a few months when Trump loses. ‘Til then just remember I called ya on your BS when you slung it.
"…what with yore talent for out-of-context and incomplete quotations…"
You're the one who edited the text to alter the context. I clearly marked Marcus as a person who liked Trump and you as a person who thought he was gonna win. You couldn't stand being shown for the bullshitter you are, so you tried to conceal that with some flagrantly inappropriate editing. Right here on the one page. Nobody can miss it. No point in denying it.
But, you will, and I'll just let it slide until Hillary wins over Trump and then I'll remind you that you were slingin’ bullshit this day and I called ya on it.
‘Til that day…
[Lyin' Chump]: " I clearly marked Marcus as a person who liked Trump and you as a person who thought he was gonna win. You couldn't stand being shown for the bullshitter you are, so you tried to conceal that with some flagrantly inappropriate editing. Right here on the one page. Nobody can miss it. No point in denying it."
LOL. You said, and I quote with no apology for including only the important context, without loss of meaning: "I think I've figured out why ... Petes thinks Trump's gonna win... They share common, dystopian, outlooks". When I observed that I wasn't a Trump supporter -- implying that I don't share his dystopian outlook -- and merely said he was gonna win, y'all leapt allover it. Fine, have yer hissy fit. I'm not that interested in yer Jesuitical nitpickin' over yore own comment. It wasn't all that intelligent to begin with.
P.S. Don't forget to cc Michael Moore about that slingin' bullshit thing.
And while I'm here, another great little demonstration that some of yore police force ain't fit to be allowed out among civilised people... Florida police shoot black man lying down with arms in air. It gets even better -- he was a therapist in the act of caring for a patient. Seriously, when are you gonna get these goons off the street. They make gun-totin' Trump supporters look like candidates for the Nobel Peace Prize.
"-- implying that I don't share his dystopian outlook --"
Or, maybe implying something else instead.
First thing is, you keep trying to argue without ever saying anything; arguing for the sake of the arguing itself. (Apparently afraid to ever have a real position of your own that you own.)
Second thing is, like hell you don't share his dystopian outlook, an optimist you're not.
And, just by the way, you're not near as good at saying nothing in elaborate flourishes as you think you are. If were as good as you think you are you wouldn't have to come back and deny the stuff that you actually managed to get said in spite of trying so hard to say nothing.
Not near as good as you think ya are.
Damn fool Irishman, first thing he says is he never supported Trump, just thought Trump was going to win. When I point out that's what I said, then it's all different--he supposedly instead ‘implied’ that he didn't share Trump's black visions, got nothing to do with him thinking Trump is gonna win--no, that wasn't it at all; it was about him not bein’ dark of mood--not ‘bout whether he though Trump would win; no that wasn't it after all, even though he said so at first.
Like we can't friggin’ see the page in front of us.
Lee: "I think I've figured out why Marcus likes Trump, and why Petes thinks Trump's gonna win.
Trump lives in a dark and angry America. That's his normal habitat. And that's what draws both of our European friends to him. They share common, dystopian, outlooks."
First of all yes I kinda like Trump as a person. But I still think there ought to be a way better candidate for the President of the USA than Trump. That said I do not think Hillary is that better candidate. So I might very well, probably, have voted for Trump, given the chance. If the choice were between those two.
And you somewhat correct also when you describe my outlook as "dystopian". Although that doesn't so much relate to US politics, of the US presidential elections. (which I only care about because it'll be important for the whole world, but local politics are way more important for me and I care about them more) But here at home in Sweden and in Europe at large I am of the opinion we've gone badly wrong, and that something new is sorely needed, and fast. So yeah, that dystopian feeling you ascribe to me is pretty accurate.
While we dissatisfied people in Europe and your dissatisfied folks in the US might have different gripes, yeah there is a feeling that we need urgent change. Trump is the result in the US, right-wing politicians gains are the results across Europe. Many feel betrayed by their "leaders" as it is. Or so it seems to me.
Lee: "I clearly marked Marcus as a person who liked Trump and you as a person who thought he was gonna win."
Again, yeah I like him. I like him better than Hillary for sure. I think he's a better person. That said I am in no ways in awe of him and I really do think you ought to have been able to produce a better choice than those two for what is arguably the highest office in the world.
You seem not to be able to do that though, and so like Pete says you're probably not that far away from dystopia your own selves.
And I have to confess: Trump is REALLY hated in our left wing media and I kinda like him to be elected just to spite them. That would be one of those gut feelings borne out of spite and not really underlaied with any deeper analysis. In any case, that's how I feel.
More rapes, now in Visby (on the Island of Gotland)
http://www.friatider.se/tv-m-n-fast-f-r-olika-v-ldt-kter-i-visby
The first they caught a rapist from Libya, in the second the man spoke "portugese", so yeah, there it is.
Mass shooting in Munich - Germany:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3703705/Major-police-investigation-way-shots-fired-shopping-centre-Munich.html
Too soon to tell if it's a terrorist attack or something else, but so far the death tally seems to be around 15.
Witnesses are saying they saw 3 people with guns and the police are saying they don't know where they are.
[Chump]: "First thing is, you keep trying to argue without ever saying anything; arguing for the sake of the arguing itself."
Uh. Pot. Kettle. Black. etc.
[Chump]: "Second thing is, like hell you don't share his dystopian outlook, an optimist you're not."
I realise logic ain't yore strong point. Even assuming I'm not an optimist, it doesn't follow that I share Trump's vision, unless there is one and only one way to not be an optimist. I readily admit I am of pessimistic bent, but bein' a Kerstian reminds and requires me to resist that urge. That's why I even entertained yore ravings, and tried to give ya some free education, although yer the closest thing to a lost cause I've encountered :-)
I listened to most of Trump's speech last night. He did do better with presentation and did manage not to sound like a junior high school boy. From what I saw, and heard from other people, his children did even better. My mother was actually impressed by him. I just felt that for the most part, like all politicians, he was telling people what he thought they wanted to hear. He was also continuing to play on the American public's fear.
But the scary thing about that whole scene was that it reminded me of a Hitler rally in Nazi Germany. The angry words by Trump, for the most part, and the frenzy the crowd seemed to be whipped into.
As Marcus said in an earlier comment the president of the United States is an important position, not just for our country, but for the world. I say again, I will vote for Hillary over Trump, despite any flaws she may also have. Because as a prominent Republican donor said, "the United States will survive Hillary, but I'm not so sure about Trump".
Don't bother Pete. You have to lower yourself in the level of debate to my level, or possibly even lower, for Lee to actually understand you. And I have tried my best to speak as plainly as possible, for Lee to get me (low on the intake of information as he is), and so I'd advice you to try the same.
I will get to your links, Marcus. I just haven't had an opportunity. Although I did watch the video with the black Trump supporter. I suspect you may have liked his idea pertaining to the flow of people into, or not into, a country ( in this case it would be the US). I understand that is a critical issue for you, and Sweden.
Now, I've gotta run. Back later...
Lynnette: "But the scary thing about that whole scene was that it reminded me of a Hitler rally in Nazi Germany. The angry words by Trump, for the most part, and the frenzy the crowd seemed to be whipped into."
WOW, that was a far fetched conclusion. Trump compared to Hitler? My dear Lynnette I fear you're becoming hysterical.
If he starts invading Poland I might give you a second guess, until then I say you're quite delusional.
Lynnette: "Although I did watch the video with the black Trump supporter. I suspect you may have liked his idea pertaining to the flow of people into, or not into, a country ( in this case it would be the US). I understand that is a critical issue for you, and Sweden."
In fact my main agreement with him was about his stance AGAINST identity politics. It was only a short tidbit of his speach but it was there.
"I realise logic ain't yore strong point."
You don't have a solid enough grasp of logic to have a clue as to whether or not it's a strong point with me.
Be that as it may…
The case for your worldview matching up well enough with Trumps' is observational.
Last I looked Nate Silver had Trump at about 40% of winning and that's coming out of the Republican Convention; which history suggests should be his high point.
60/40 Clinton wins is where Silver's got it today.
I'm guessing that's Trumps best day ever--he'll never reach this high again.
Still, given the danger that Trump poses, that 40% chance as of today sends chills down my spine until good sense takes over. (Also we have Petes and his brand of ‘science’ telling us Trump will win. No doubt backed up by his Catholic fantasy maths. Assuming this particular brand of Petes' science is as good as his general science comprehension, then obviously Trump's toast.)
"Fine, have yer hissy fit."
Ahhh, check this out… In Petes' world this is a hissy fit:
"It would help if you'd take the time to learn how to read."
Lee C. @ Fri Jul 22, 07:17:00 am
And, of course, Marcus praises him as a genius for that. (The clowns are clustering again.)
Note to Marcus: NBC says they think they've got the body of one of the shooters, and they think it's one of your guys.
My dear Lynnette I fear you're becoming hysterical.
Me? Hysterical? Nope. Just concerned with the apparent inability of my fellow countrymen to recognize a man who is playing on their fears and who seems adept at attracting the haters out there.
If he starts invading Poland I might give you a second guess, until then I say you're quite delusional.
Someone probably said the same thing about those who expressed caution about Hitler.
Take the convention speech of Patricia Smith...
That was a disturbing video.
The notion that one should jail one's political opponents, or kill them, execute her specifically, as some Trump supporters have suggested (inside the Trump tent supporters, not just excited voices in the delegate crowd) is moving fairly rapidly along the scale to full blown fascism.
Lee: "Note to Marcus: NBC says they think they've got the body of one of the shooters, and they think it's one of your guys."
Am I to guess that "my guys" would be some kind of right wing terrorists, Breivik types?
They are not "my guys", but I do fear it's only a matter of time before we see mass attacks from that side as well.
In any case, this time it was a lone 18 YO Iranian and how he could be one of "my guys" begs en explanation.
"Breivik types?"
Brevik was a loner; when NBC was reporting the German government's theory that he was a right-winger they were still thinking he was one of three shooters, and they were still looking for the other two.
"…how he could be one of ‘my guys’ begs en explanation."
Story was he claimed to be German, had a marked German accent, and was carrying on about ‘foreigners’ before he started shooting. Iranians claim to be ‘Aryans’ and have a long history of conflict with Turks and Arabs. You know, "When the Saxon begins to hate…" type of thing.
Doesn't seem to be political or ideological at all. Looks more in line with one of those school-shootings, although obviosly not in a school. Seems to have targeted other young people. Claimed to having been bullied for years.
14 YO girl dragged into a bush and raped in the middle of the day yesterday, here in Malmö.
http://lokaltidningen.se/just-nu-14-arig-flicka-valdtagen-i-buske-%E2%80%93-polisen-soker-vittnen-/20160723/artikler/160729914
The rapist described as male 20-30 YO and did not speak swedish.
After the rape took the girl home and told his parents what had happened. The incident was reported later in the day, and the police have established a notification of aggravated rape.
Huh?
Suicide bomber in Kabul kills 61 Shiites at a peaceful rally for more electricity.
Well, at least there are those who appreciate Melania Trump's efforts at the RNC.
Live, it's...?
You know you've made it when you become fodder for the late night comedy circuit.
Death toll in the Kabul bombing now exceeds eighty, couple of hundred injuries. It's being reported on BBC as an afterthought, about 10 to 15 minutes into the hourly headlines. The Baghdad truck bombings got top billing for almost three days, which just happened to be in the week of the Chilcot report. The several other Iraq bombings of 2016 that rivaled the latest Kabul one in lethality got barely a mention. Seems like very selective reporting to me.
It seems I am not the only one who came away with the impression of Trump as authoritarian.
Beware the dark thoughts of an authoritarian strongman
“Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it,” he says. I alone. Consider that for the moment. It’s a recipe for investing all faith, all power, all hopes in a single individual. He promises repeatedly how he is going to accomplish this. He never does. Only the promise of raw power is offered. “I am the law-and-order candidate,” he announces.
Death toll in the Kabul bombing now exceeds eighty, couple of hundred injuries. It's being reported on BBC as an afterthought, about 10 to 15 minutes into the hourly headlines.
That's either a sad commentary on the lack of value placed on some lives or on the weariness that has set in because of the numerous attacks in war torn countries like Afghanistan.
Lynnette -- I see Hillary's running mate was born in St. Paul. Irish Catholic parents, Jesuit educated, has done missionary work, is anti-abortion. Doesn't sound much like the Hillary demographic to me. Is she taking a gamble in order to boost her chances in Virginia?
"It seems I am not the only one who came away with the impression
of Trump as authoritarian."
Actually some head shinker types did a study on it back in the early summer and came away with the conclusion that the single most telling commonality among Trump supporters was a high score on authoritarian inclinations. (Petes has those in spades, which gives him a natural affinity for The Donald even though their politics are nominally somewhat different.)
Word is Hillary picked him for a very simple reason. She's getting old and she thought he was well qualified to actually be President in case she died or became disabled. And, he's not got any significant skeletons which can hurt her. But, he doesn't "help" her in any traditional political sense. She picked him anyway on account of she thought he could do the job, and she thought she could probably get along with him because they both tend to be workaholic types.
[Lynnette]: "It seems I am not the only one who came away with the impression of Trump as authoritarian."
Of course you aren't. The left wing press on both sides of the Atlantic is full of similar screeds about Trump. That one is particularly badly written, but it's got all the usual stuff, up to and including the Hitler comparisons. Like Marcus said, that's downright ridiculous. Your current president has spent half his term battling congressional gridlock. How will Trump fare any better? Some kind of beer hall putsch? (That didn't even work for Hitler ;-)
I've just been listening to Hillary's speech live from Miami, where she is heavy on the optimism as an obvious foil to Trump's supposed fear-mongering. (Lee C's obviously been drinking the Hillary Koolaid with his comments about dystopia). I guess, what else can Hillary do? She can't say the country's shot to shit when she's been part of the administration. I smiled when she said "America's already great but it's going to get even better". What else could the status quo candidate possibly say?
The problem, as both Hillary and Trump know, is that there is a seething resentment against the status quo. Things aren't fine. Middle incomes have been eroding for years. Current policies disproportionately favour the already well off. That is a serious blot on the Democrat copybook. Probably neither Hillary nor The Donald are the right person to improve things. Trump is divisive. Hillary's a sham. I've seen vox pops in which a striking number of people dislike both of them.
Here's Elizabeth Warren on Trump. I have the greatest respect for Warren. As an academic, I think she put her finger on a lot of the problems that Trump is now bombastically claiming he will address. But Warren has drunk the Hillary Koolaid too. It is disingenuous to say that Democrats "want to take back government and make it work for all of us". Huh? You gotta be kiddin' me. That's HILLARY the archetypal Washington insider she's talking about!!! Moreover, how can you have Democrats like Warren running around saying that something has gone horribly wrong with the country (which she has been consistent about since before Obama's inauguration), while Hillary gives gushing speeches about how everything is so great?
"Your current president has spent half his term battling
congressional gridlock."
Three quarters. The Republicans re-took the House in the 2010 elections.
"Lee C's obviously been drinking the Hillary Koolaid with his
comments about dystopia."
Apparently you missed Trump's acceptance speech. You should probably listen to it. link It's rather long, but I have no problem with you taking the time to learn what the hell you're talking ‘bout before you babble on ‘bout things.
At one point Petes tells us that the American government is and has been gridlocked for years (which is true), and then later he claims that Elizabeth Warren is being disingenuous for saying that the Democrats want to take back control of that government.
These are, of course, entirely inconsistent positions.
He appears to adopt and shift his immediate political position according to whether or not he likes the candidate who benefits from that political position. In this case he likes Elizabeth Warren but he despises Hillary Clinton, and the latter won out, so he espouses inconsistent and incoherent political positions in back to back paragraphs.
(By the way, Petes, you can consider that a succinct demonstration of your incompetence in the field of logic as I mentioned earlier.)
Things aren't fine. Middle incomes have been eroding for years. Current policies disproportionately favour the already well off. That is a serious blot on the Democrat copybook. Probably neither Hillary nor The Donald are the right person to improve things.
Yes, we are frozen in place because of the gridlock in Washington, and because it has, indeed, been building for years I would not necessarily blame it all on the Democrats.
While I don't think either candidate is the best choice they are all we've got to choose from, so I will pick the one who may actually be able to work with people. Granted, Hillary is not popular, but The Donald is even less so. There you have it. And, horrible thought though it is, I have found out that some of my relatives are going to be voting Trump. *sigh* There are always people who will fall for the snake oil salesman.
That one is particularly badly written, but it's got all the usual stuff, up to and including the Hitler comparisons. Like Marcus said, that's downright ridiculous.
She gets her point across well enough. As for Hitler, it is the emotions and outright hate that is felt at some of his rallies that remind me of the Nazi era in Germany. I don't like it, not at all. Not in my country. Do I think he will be itching to invade any country if he is made President? No. In all honesty I don't think he has the cajones. He's all talk and bluster...and hair.
Is she taking a gamble in order to boost her chances in Virginia?
From what I heard she was already polling okay there. I think it is a bit more like Lee suggested, she was looking for experience. Perhaps his never having lost an election had something to do with it too. lol!
Lynnette: "After the rape took the girl home and told his parents what had happened. The incident was reported later in the day, and the police have established a notification of aggravated rape."
Bad Google translate. It shoule read:
"After the rape the girl went home and told her parents what had happened. The incident was reported later in the day, and the police have established a notification of aggravated rape."
There used to ba a time where folks told young women: be careful and do not walk home alone in the middle of the night and cut through the park, there are bad people out there.
That's not enough any more. Now it's more like: don't attend concerts, avoid festivals, never go near a public bath house, don't go picking mushrooms in the forest, in fact don't go out at all unacompanied. There are hardly any safe places now. Sad.
That is sad, Marcus. I don't know the answer, except to deport the guilty and try to instill in others that the law needs to be adhered to.
Strange, they were just comparing the US prison population to that of other countries, finding that ours greatly outnumbers others. It was during a discussion of the criminal justice system's bias against blacks. One study showed that 1 out of 3 black male children will end up in prison in the US.
Perhaps Sweden needs a little more convictions and we need a little less.
Hmmm...that was on Fareed Zakaria's show.
It has begun:
"Even if you draw no adverse conclusions, Trump's financial empire
is heavily leveraged and has a deep reliance on capital infusions from
[Russian] oligarchs and other sources of wealth aligned with Putin.
That's simply not something that can be waved off or ignored."
TalkingPointsMemo
Der Spiegel comments upon Turkey's ongoing slide into Islamic dictatorship.
I was going to write a post last night but was sidetracked by a Windows 10 upgrade. *sigh* The dang thing took over 4 hours!
It has begun:
It is no secret that Trump's ideas do seem to dovetail with what would be advantageous for Putin/Russia. Not come to the aid of NATO countries if they are invaded? Seriously?
[Chumpy]: "At one point Petes tells us that the American government is and has been gridlocked for years (which is true), and then later he claims that Elizabeth Warren is being disingenuous for saying that the Democrats want to take back control of that government. These are, of course, entirely inconsistent positions."
Have an actual listen to her in context, Chumpy. She flits from talking about Trump's vision, to talking about Democrats taking back control, then back to Trump. WTF have those ideas got to do with each other? Obama didn't make his campaign promises contingent on the outcome of congressional elections, Trump ain't doing that either, and nor is Hillary. It is Warren that is setting up the contradiction and creating the confusion. Ain't my fault if yore political system is set up to stymie the executive branch. Ain't my fault if Warren is drafted in to talk about the presidency and chooses to talk about the congress.
And by the by, even today's left-leaning Washington Post agrees with another point I made: "It’s always possible, of course, that many voters didn’t pay the closest attention to the details of Trump’s speech, and are reacting to the increased media coverage of Trump basically saying that things are a mess, he gets that, and he’ll fix things. Let’s hope so. Democrats will have to figure out how to strike a balance between acknowledging the many legitimate grievances voters have with a basic case that things are getting better and progress is being made, albeit slowly".
Basically, the question is why anyone would vote for another Democrat preznit, when the current one has made things worse, not better, for significant chunk of the middle class. If y'all were less doctrinaire y'all would accept that, even if y'all were still not gonna vote for Trump on account of he's a lunatic.
P.S. Same article has Trump ahead in polls, albeit probably not very significant ones. I still say he's gonna be preznit. You can probably thank Debbie Wasserman Schultz for sending a bunch of Bernie voters in Trump's direction ;-)
Oops. Forget the WP link.
Forget = forgot :-(
"Have an actual listen to her in context, Chumpy."
The fact that her speech was not organized to suit you does not make the concepts you identified incongruous nor in conflict. It just don't. Context be damned. Your logic fails you.
"…the current [President] has made things worse, not better, for significant
chunk of the middle class."
And now your history fails you, in addition to your logic.
[Lynnette]: " He's all talk and bluster...and hair."
:-)
[Chumpy]: "Your logic fails you... And now your history fails you, in addition to your logic."
Jes' 'cos you says so, right? I guess yer hopin' it's easier to simply declare victory when it ain't maths. At least y'all don't have 300 professors directly sayin' yer full of shit. :-)
"Jes' 'cos you says so, right?"
Just ‘cause it is so.
If even the left (minus Chumpy) agree with me that Hillary has a conundrum trying to explain how things are "jes' fine but need to get better", the right are a lot less generous. She's got a major likability problem too:
"Hillary Clinton’s unfavorable poll ratings have risen as high as 29 percent in recent months. “Negatives” of 40 percent are generally fatal for a candidate; for a new-to-the-national-scene wife of a candidate, negatives in the 30 range are disastrous. The image of Mrs. Clinton that has crystallized in the public consciousness is, of course, that of Lady Macbeth: consuming ambition, inflexibility of purpose, domination of a pliable husband, and an unsettling lack of tender human feeling, along with the affluent feminist’s contempt for traditional female roles. Usually when a public figure develops a chronic image problem, it is the result of searching investigative reporting, leaks, revelations, scandal... The surprising thing about Hillary’s image problem is that it is self-generated."
"The surprising thing about Hillary’s image problem is that it is
self-generated."
The Republicans' 20 odd years of Hating Hillary has a lot to do with it too. (They originally reviled her for not abandoning Bill when they were trying to impeach him; really pissed ‘em off when they thought she ‘saved’ him by giving him another chance after he'd lied to her about Monica Lewinsky--seriously pissed them off.)
Michael Moore says Trump is likely to win, gives 5 reasons:
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
Nate Silver disagrees. (Real science, not Petes science.)
Wow. The Dems must have figured that the chaotic scenes at the Republican Convention were good for Trump, and they're trying to organise the same for Hillary. First Debbie Wasserman Schultz has to resign, in order to not have Democrats booing in the very opening moments of the DNC. The Mayor of Baltimore who replaced her at the "gaveling in" briefly forgot to do the gaveling (LOL).
I loved the DNC establishment response to the leaked Wasserman Schultz emails: "hey look over there -- RUSSIANS!". LMAO. It was worthy of a deranged Republican. Although even the Republican establishment was open about wanting to scupper Trump in the primaries. The Dems seem to have wanted to stick the knife between Bernie's shoulder blades a bit more subtly. Obviously they were much too civilised for such unseemly public spats.
But I was genuinely gobsmacked by Bernie's address to his delegates before the convention got underway.
Bernie: "We have got to defeat Donald Trump".
Crowd:
Bernie: "And we have got to elect Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine".
Crowd: "No, no, no".
Bernie fans may not switch wholesale to Trump, but they won't be coming out to vote for Hillary.
[Chump]: "Nate Silver disagrees. (Real science, not Petes science.)"
It prolly didn't get much airtime there in the backwoods, but Nate Silver got paraded around the UK applying that "real science" to the 2015 general election. His prediction for the 2010 election had been the worst of pretty much all the forecasters, but he developed a shiny new model and made a "retrocast" for the 2010 election to show that hey, it worked! How did he fare in 2015? Completely, laughably wrong. Again.
But mebbe "real science" works different in the US? If yore anything to go by, I suppose "real science" can't be based on "real maths" :-)
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