Espionage, they call it the second
oldest profession in the world. And I suspect that, like the first,
it will never go away. Spying for one's country is one thing, but
spying for a foreign power against one's country is another. It's
called treason, and would be considered a high crime or misdemeanor.
Don't ask me why that phrase popped into my head. I have an
interesting, and rather depressing I would say, video today from the
History channel about some famous spies who betrayed America. It is
worth watching, though, to remind us of what it looks like and how it
can happen.
One of the common denominators in all
of those cases was that so many people really didn't believe that the
guilty person would have done what they did, or that it could happen
at that level of government. But greed, for one thing, is a huge
motivating factor. The video is long, but never boring.
57 comments:
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying
War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid
and Comfort."
U.S. Constitution: Art. ɪɪɪ § 3 ¶ 1
There are those who'll argue that Russia is not a recognized ‛Enemy’ (nor is Turkey)according to the legal definition of a capital "E" Enemy, as that term was defined at the time the Constitution was written; so, they argue, the crime of Treason cannot apply to Trump being in cahoots with Putin's Russia (nor Erdoğan's Turkey). Personally, I think that narrow legalism exists mostly in their hopes, rather than enshrined in law.
Be that as it may: Espionage is also a capital offense. So worrying too much about the Trumpkins' legalisms is probably not worth the time spent on it until more is known about just what Mueller's got on him.
There are those who'll argue that Russia is not a recognized ‛Enemy’...
I think the last cases cited in the documentary occurred after the Soviet Union was gone and we were dealing with Russia. It didn't seem to be a question then.
One thing, this documentary predated Snowden.
I haven't had a chance to look at the tape past the first few minutes (football playoffs), but Roger Mudd appeared to be using the word ‛treason’ colloquially rather than as a strictly Constitutional/legal term of rather stricter definition (which the dedicated Trumpkins will insist simply must be the standard strictly adhered to when discussing Trump's offenses--never mind that they'd not adhere to anything remotely approaching that standard whilst chanting "Lock her up!" at Trump rallies). My guess though is that all of those persons were actually convicted of Espionage.
Espionage has long been considered to be treason as a matter of general English usage (whether it met the strictly Constitutional definition notwithstanding).
I was just trying to point out that it's basically a bullshit argument anyway, an angels on the head of a pin type of thing (with all the heavens available to them for dancing why the Hell would angels crowd themselves together on the head of pin when it came time to dance? What the hell kinda damn-fool question is this anyway?). Anyway, espionage is also a capital offense, so it really doesn't matter even if they manage to convince the federal courts of their argument about the definition of ‛Enemy’.
Don't let the Trumpkins fool you with that one is my point.
Don't let the Trumpkins fool you with that one is my point.
I understand. My response was really just for the sake of argument if by some odd chance any Trumpkin should wander through this comments section.
Call it espionage or treason, working with a foreign power to undermine your own country is an act that is heinous in nature and the person should be called to account. Personally, whether Trump actually passed information of a sensitive nature to the Russians or not, I believe he has done more to further their cause of undermining our democracy than any of those spies cited in the documentary. While their actions certainly made us less secure and either did, in the case of Vietnam, or could, impact us during a time of war the long term health and strength of our country lies in its freedoms and faith in our ability to overcome our problems via the ballot box and the participation of all of our people. Russian interference in our elections has called into question that faith. Trump via his divisive and ill thought out policies, whether they are the result of greed(possibly working with the Russians), stupidity, or some kind of ego trip, have made us less secure in ourselves. He really, really, needs to be fired.
Those who stand in support of his policies are in the end colluding with those who would tear down this country. I am starting to wonder about the 32% who give him a pass on responsibility for the government shutdown, blaming the Democrats/Congress. I have never been a Nancy Pelosi fan, so there is something strange when I feel she sounds more reasonable than our president and his supporters.
"I am starting to wonder about the 32% who give him a pass on
responsibility for the government shutdown…"
Team players. (Gone fully tribal.)
I haven't had a chance to look at the tape past the first few minutes (football playoffs),...
Oh, that's okay, I understand. The Vikings shot themselves in the foot early on and are out of it, and I don't usually watch the college games. I haven't even been paying attention to who is left. I might tune into the Super Bowl if it isn't a blowout.
A way out for Trump, maybe.
Of course, he may end up running up against a reality he can't face. That many Americans don't really want a wall between the US and Mexico.
The precedent for those ‛Wall Bonds’ is early-form government indebtedness (prior to the 20ᵗʰ century the federal government was financed primarily by tariffs). Nowadays the government routinely engages in deficit spending. All spending still has to be authorized by Congress. Even if Trump called for the sale of ‛Wall Bonds’, the appropriation of the money, the authority to spend it on The Great Wall of Trump, still has to come from Congress.
"Trump repeatedly declared that Mexico would pay
for the wall, and he still insists that Mexico will pay for
it indirectly “many, many times over.” So I have a
solution to the whole mess.
"Since Mexico will pay for the wall eventually, the
problem now is one of cash flow. Fortunately, we have
financial instruments to deal with precisely this issue.
"I propose that Trump pay the $5.7 billion himself, and
then the U.S. will repay him (with a nice interest rate)
as the Mexican payments for the wall pour in. The
Federal Reserve can verify the Mexican income stream
and forward the sums to Trump."
Nicholas Kristof writing in The New York Times
Looks like we've got something like twenty-two, twenty-three tweets from our somewhat agitated CinC since he got back from Louisiana last night (counting retweets).
Hard for me to make out whether he's more wound up about his falling poll numbers from the government shutdown or the recent revelations in the Trump/Russia investigation, but he's sure wound up about something.
TrumpTweets
"I propose that Trump pay the $5.7 billion himself, and
then the U.S. will repay him (with a nice interest rate)
as the Mexican payments for the wall pour in. The
Federal Reserve can verify the Mexican income stream
and forward the sums to Trump."
What a wonderful idea! Given his being so very, very wealthy and all. I'm sure he has a little spare change laying around.
I find it curious that we're well into the evening and Trump hasn't tweeted anything heralding the lack of a deal between Great Britain and the European Union. I would think that by now he'd be all over that, cheering for chaos in the EU and cheering the collapse of the British government.
(Must be he's too busy with his own problems just now.)
Pelosi has politely disinvited Trump to the scheduled Presidential State of the Union speech later this month. The grounds are ‛security concerns’ arising out of the government shutdown. The Capitol Hill Police are among those unfunded.
Ya gotta know that's gonna piss him off; she knows that too.
Dang it all! I was just going to mention that rather interesting, and entertaining, Pelosi move on the DC chessboard. I don't care how Trump may characterize her decision, I'm just glad someone stood up to His Orangeness and his abhorrent behavior. That it's a woman who is doing it just makes it even better.
Piss him off? I certainly hope so. The only thing better would be if the American voters finally kick him out of an office he never should have entered in the first place.
Well, Trump's getting in a few licks too, but he's mostly causing grief for federal employees. He keeps expanding the category of ‛essential’ employees to deal with stuff that'll piss off his voters. You can be damn sure that he wouldn't be making those moves if the voters were blaming Pelosi, Shumer and the Democrats for the shutdown.
But, she's taking her shots straight at him. So, gotta give her this round.
There's a PBS special on tonight at 9:00, The Dictator's Playbook, about about Saddam's Iraq.
News from unnamed Trump staffers is that Trump has no plans to postpone the State of the Union Speech, nor have they made any plans to pick an alternative venue from which Trump might give said SoTU Speech.
This could turn into a problem. The Congress is, technically, a co-equal branch of government, and the President is allowed inside the House Chamber to give the SoTU Speech only by invitation from the Speaker of the House (Pelosi). If he's not got an invitation (and, apparently that hasn't happened), he might be met at the door by the Sergeant at Arms, and denied entry--possibly even threatened with physical force to stop him from entering the chamber.
Things could get weird if he tries to push it. Ancient Common Law precedents might come to bear, wherein the King could theoretically be placed under arrest, physically seized, clapped in irons and tossed into the dungeons underneath the Parliament building, by Order of the House of Commons. (Not likely they'll actually lock Trump in the basements, but things could conceivably get a bit medieval before it gets over.)
Turning away from the Trump vs Pelosi show (Pelosi's way ahead on points)….
Michael Cohn is telling people that Trump instructed him to lie to a congressional committee, under oath. Apparently Mueller's got a couple of sources for this information, at least one source in addition to Cohn, maybe more than one.
This opens up a whole new set of opportunities for Rudy Guliani to stick his foot in his mouth yet again.
Trump's getting some seriously bad press for his pissing match with Pelosi (not to mention, head to head, she's whuppin' his ass there; even the dedicated Trumpkins know he's not gettin' the better of that match-up).
Got some more seriously bad press developing over the Trump/Russia investigation as well--Cohn's gonna finger him in public for suborning perjury to Congress (or so it's been reported on Buzzfeed--seems to be some question developing over whether or not they got that right).
Turns out his new Attorney General nominee is a personal friend of Robert Mueller (somehow Trump seems to have missed that tidbit during whatever passes for vetting in the Trump administration).
The shutdown ain't goin' well for him. The Democrats are holding firm; the Republicans are mostly stupefied (to borrow from Al Capp), and the general public is blaming him.
And Rudy Guiliani has made another public mess of things in his domain.
Trump needs to change some headlines.
I'm guessing that he's going to go with that ‛national emergency’ idea as a way to get his Trumpkins to line up for him and to drive everything else off the headlines for a few days. Trumptweets Here's the thing… It probably won't work this time; won't suck up all the headlines, which is the point of the exercise. His go-to move ain't got the power it used to have, and he's not got any other moves--he's a one-trick-pony; that's his only trick, and this time it ain't gonna work; not like it used to.
If he's not got an invitation (and, apparently that hasn't happened), he might be met at the door by the Sergeant at Arms, and denied entry--possibly even threatened with physical force to stop him from entering the chamber.
That could be entertaining. Or they could let him in and end up with the only people showing up are Republicans and the press. Not quite sure how that would play, except it might make him look rather foolish.
(Pelosi's way ahead on points)….
I rather liked her response to his canceling her plane, calling him inexperienced for making the whole trip public, in effect warning anyone who would pose a danger to those making it.
Michael Cohn is telling people that Trump instructed him to lie to a congressional committee, under oath. Apparently Mueller's got a couple of sources for this information, at least one source in addition to Cohn, maybe more than one.
It looks like Mueller is distancing his investigation from that Buzzfeed article, calling it inaccurate. However, he did not say it was totally false, as Trump is claiming. As someone pointed out last night there are multiple investigations going on surrounding Trump. Mueller has been notoriously tight lipped about his. That there would be a leak from his team is unlikely. They were speculating that it is coming from the investigation in New York where leaks are more common, apparently. That Mueller's team even made that statement is unusual as they don't comment. So, I suspect he has something up his sleeve.
Turns out his new Attorney General nominee is a personal friend of Robert Mueller (somehow Trump seems to have missed that tidbit during whatever passes for vetting in the Trump administration).
Amy Klobuchar, during his confirmation hearing, asked Barr if he would consider someone instructing someone to lie to Congress to be obstruction of justice and he did reply, in the end, yes. He is now on record.
I'm guessing that he's going to go with that ‛national emergency’ idea as a way to get his Trumpkins to line up for him...
It appears that Trump is to speak and propose a solution to the shutdown. The Democrats have stolen a bit of that thunder by coming out with a proposal giving him $1 billion for border security, but no wall. I think that is lower than what they offered in the past. Well, we'll see what Trump has to say. I don't hold out much hope on that front.
Trump is apparently holding a 2:30 conference call with House Republican leaders, prior to his 3:00 public address. This would indicate that the 3:00 speech will be intended to put pressure on Pelosi. That doesn't fit well with my earlier suspicion that he'd decided to declare a ‛national emergency’. Seems he's got something else on his mind instead.
"It appears that Trump is to…propose a solution to the shutdown."
You called it right. The Democrats have said they're open to negotiations before, but gotta open the government and then they'll negotiate. So, Trump's got nothing new here except another attempt to force negotiations (this time out in the open) before he allows the government to re-open.
I guess the question is whether or not his gambit of making a public offer works to his advantage. Does the public buy into it? Will the Democrats cave and begin negotiations with Trump before he allows the government to re-open?
And, is he going to actually make an offer in public? Or is this gonna be just smoke and mirrors?
I guess there's another question to be addressed as well…
Will Trump's proposal (assuming he actually makes a solid offer), will it be acceptable to Ann Hannibaugh? (Ann Coulter has replaced Glenn Beck as the dedicated Trumpkins' #3 choice of propagandists. Beck never bought into the Trump movement and has been exiled.) Has Trump run his proposal by them yet?
Looked like Trump was fresh botoxed for today's camera session; probably shoulda skipped that part.
The other major players of the FoxNews/Radio-Right-Wing World; Hannity, Limbaugh, Ingraham, generally work Monday through Friday, and aren't much for using Twitter. The only one with a consequential Twitter presence is Ann Coulter. Judging from her twitter feed, Trump did not run today's proposition by Ann Hannibaugh for approval prior to going public with it.
This tends to suggest that Trump's proposal wasn't really serious.
Looked like Trump was fresh botoxed for today's camera session; probably shoulda skipped that part.
The whole thing, from the naturalization ceremony preceding the address down to his demeanor, was well scripted. It was a propagandist's dream and left me with an immense feeling of disgust towards a man who would play the American people that way.
This tends to suggest that Trump's proposal wasn't really serious.
The only thing he's serious about is "winning" this stalemate with the Democratic leaders in Congress, even at the expense of the federal workers who are being held hostage to his whims.
There have been two incidents recently that are rather telling.
One was here in Minnesota at a high school basketball game. A number of students from Jordan displayed a re-elect Trump 2020 flag saying "Keep America Great". Jordan is a predominantly white community, the team the were playing, Roosevelt High, is predominantly black. The Roosevelt coach was wondering why the Jordan kids thought this appropriate at a sporting event.
The second incident was just recently in Washington D.C. where a number of boys from a private Catholic school wearing MAGA hats appeared to be taunting a Native American drummer.
While I don't believe that all Trump supporters are racists I do believe there are many out there who have underlying issues that are being expressed more openly now. Trump and his attitude appear to be giving a green light to some rather unpleasant behavior.
"…appear to be…" ???
It's not accidental.
I notice that Trump has threatened, by this morning's tweet, to come to Pelosi's House and give his SoTU speech on the 29ᵗʰ in spite of having been disinvited.
The media seems to be wise to his moves; they're not going apoplectic over the threat this time.
"…a number of boys from a private Catholic school wearing MAGA
hats appeared to be taunting a Native American drummer."
That one looked particularly bad, so the right-wing blog/media combine has rewritten the script on that, and it's now the official wingnut position that the old Indian was harassing the mob of angry white high school boys. They've tried the story out several ways, and seem to be hitting on a favorite version for the faerie tale for this one.
Shorthands is not resting easy. 8:00 pm on a Sunday night, and he's online, tweeting.
There was a super blood wolf moon last night and I missed it. The moon was visible early on in the day, but it clouded up when it was at its peak. *sigh* I think that happened to me the last time there was a super moon. Oh well, view earlier in the day was rather nice anyway.
It sounds like McConnell is going to try to shift blame to the Democrats for the continuing shutdown. He will put to a vote the proposal Trump floated.
I'm really, really getting tired of the Republicans refusal to compromise (no I don't think Trump's proposal was a compromise). The government should never have been shutdown over the Great Wall of Trump. All Trump has done is manufacture a crisis to give the impression that his boondoggle is needed, dragging many innocent American workers with him.
The problem with the plan for McConnell to put a Republican bill on the Senate floor is fairly straightforward.
1. Anybody highly political already has an opinion about who's to blame for the shutdown.
2. Folks even moderately political already heard Trump say he would be proud to own this shutdown.
3. Folks who are apolitical won't understand the machinations well enough to get the point McConnell will be trying to make. All they'll know is that the Democrats won't negotiate until Trump allows the government to re-open, and Trump won't allow the government to re-open until the Democrats surrender and give him $5.7 million for a wall most people don't want.
I don't see a winning move here for McConnell and Trump.
We can forget about the spectacle of Trump being greeted at the doors to the House Chamber by the Sergeant-at-Arms and denied entry.
Rather, it appears he may arrive to be quietly met by locked doors and no lights.
It sounds like Trump is considering giving a State of the Union speech at some kind of political rally, which would be geared towards his followers. This whole thing is looking more and more bizarre. And just sad for all of the people who are struggling to maintain their lives.
I don't see a winning move here for McConnell and Trump.
Personally I would be quite happy to see both of them go.
"It sounds like…"
Yeah, but they are also proceeding apace with plans to deliver the SoTU from the Well in the House Chamber, as if he were actually invited. Dueling sets of plans among all the President's men (not new, that)
"He will put to a vote the proposal Trump floated."
Well, by the time McConnell got done loading it up with hard-right extras that even most Republicans don't want ‛the proposal Trump floated’ was re-written to 1,300 pages of right-winger fever dreams. The point is: McConnell wanted to guarantee that it would not pass. (Is there even a snowball's chance in Hell that Trump proposed 1,300 pages of policy? Trump doesn't know that much policy.)
McConnell was afraid that if something passed the Senate then the House would take it up and amend it (re-write it in effect) and pass it as re-written, and then send it back to the Senate for passage, and he'd have lost control of it's contents.
1,300 pages: This is not Trump's proposal, but is McConnell's substitution, which is guaranteed to not pass the Senate (least McConnell thinks he's got it poisoned to where that's guaranteed), lest McConnell lose control over the further progress of the shutdown negotiations, and maybe something gets passed without his being able to stop it. So, stop it now is his plan.
Trump has doubled down on his threat to force his presence into the House Chamber.
Somebody has failed to explain to him that there are some fights he can't win and that publicly pressing those particular fights is probably a bad idea.
Somebody has failed to explain to him that there are some fights he can't win and that publicly pressing those particular fights is probably a bad idea.
Nancy Pelosi seems to have stepped into that void. Maybe it might sink in eventually.
... lest McConnell lose control over the further progress of the shutdown negotiations,...
What is he looking for in a deal?
"What is he looking for in a deal?"
As always, McConnell is looking for whatever'll deliver a Republican Senate majority in the next election. For now that means finding a deal that Trump can declare to be a ‛win’ on the matter of a southern border wall.
There was a town hall meeting recently near me. This is an area of my state that has steadfastly voted for the Republican candidate, whoever he/she may be. Yes, sadly Trump won in this area. What was interesting about this meeting is the views expressed to our Republican representative regarding the shutdown. Basically, many people there were intent on getting across that they are not happy and they are placing the blame squarely on Trump and his Republican allies. Granted, blaming Trump wasn't unanimous, but the fact that anyone placed the blame there was rather new.
It gives me a small glimmer of hope that people aren't willing to be hoodwinked forever by Trump.
As always, McConnell is looking for whatever'll deliver a Republican Senate majority in the next election. For now that means finding a deal that Trump can declare to be a ‛win’ on the matter of a southern border wall.
Americans vote their pocketbook. That harks back to that phrase, "it's the economy, stupid". Somehow throwing thousands of people out of work and the resulting effect on businesses doesn't seem to be a good selling point to garner votes. I mean, even people who aren't effected directly are feeling very sympathetic towards those who are suffering without pay.
"Americans vote their pocketbook."
Trump has changed things. He's got his dedicated Trumpkins happily voting to burn the whole damn thing to ground if they can't get their way. He's offered them the opportunity for destruction as a complaint mechanism, and they've seized on that opportunity.
So, McConnell's gotta deal with that, pander to it, if he wants a Republican Senate majority in 2020.
Trump's polling at around 34% and Republican Senators are crossing the aisle to vote for a Democratic bill to reopen the government. I'm thinking McConnell might do well to reconsider what the best road to a Republican Senate majority in 2020 would be.
"Trump's polling at around 34%…"
RCP average has him holding still at around 40% job approval overall (40.8% as I write this). Probably the 34% is specific to the current partial government shutdown.
However, only one (1) Democratic Senator voted for the Trump favored solution in the Senate today (that would be Joe Manchin from West Virginia), and six (6) Republican Senators voted for the Democrats' no wall version. So, yeah, Trump and McConnell are looking for a way out of their predicament now.
Trump's unfavorables are steadily going up with swing voters and independents. Bad news for Trump and for McConnell's Republican Senate majority, sure ‛nuff. But, if Trump folds his dedicated Trumpkins are gonna be unhappy. No good moves for him here; none that I can see anyway. Backed his ass into a corner he did, and can't find an escape. This suggests an attempt at a diversion; he does something outrageous enough to distract attention from this fiasco. (However, that trick's been lettin' him down here of late as well.)
Trump has taken note of the arrest of Roger Stone, and he seems to think that CNN had advance notice of the arrest. Trumptweets
(This one's a big deal; this is the allegation of collusion between the Russians (via Wikileaks, acting as agent) and the Trump campaign. So far Trump has not been personally named, but that's the next, and last, step; the campaign is already implicated with this indictment. the necessary allegations are in--of course, proving it is something else again. And then there's the minor problem of how little actual proof will matter to the dedicated Trumpkins.)
Well the House and Senate have passed a measure to reopen the government. It just awaits Trump's signature. It's temporary, only three weeks, which means that we may end up going through this all over again. Not a solution, a reprieve for all of those who have been going without pay. But it may not mean the damage isn't permanent, given some people have already started, and found, work elsewhere in the private sector. This will hurt all of those government agencies who have lost some very good talent.
Okay, so the question now is this: "Is Pelosi smart enough to not gloat just yet?" My guess is that the answer to that one is, ‛Yes’, probably ‛Yes’ anyway. Thatld be my guess.
Trump has three weeks, until February 15th, to figure out a faerie tale to tell his dedicated Trumpkins--something they can pretend to believe. Then it's time for long-term funding legislation (full year or maybe better). After that, she can gloat, but she's gotta get past that first.
So…. Question is: "Is Pelosi smart enough to not gloat just yet?"
Word is that McConnell told Trump that he wasn't sure how much longer the GOP would hold out. Perhaps that vote he took in the Senate was a wake up call for him. But it appears that Trump told McConnell that he wanted the shutdown to end. Why he changed his mind is anyone's guess.
"Is Pelosi smart enough to not gloat just yet?"
She didn't get this far by playing the game stupid. Besides she can just sit back and let others do that. If she is smart she'll just say nothing.
"Why he changed his mind is anyone's guess."
He could read the polls is why. That and he had six (6) defections on the first Senate vote.
Remember when, in the last thread, I misread a news article and thought it said there'd been seven (7) defections in the Senate, and I was telling you that was a really big deal (only to realize later that I'd misread the article and it was seven defections in the House, not in the Senate)?
Six defections on the first vote in the Senate is almost as big a deal as the seven defections I thought I'd read about back when I got it wrong the first time.
All those delayed flights out East didn't help either. Maybe some of the ramifications, political and economical, were finally sinking in.
"All those delayed flights out East didn't help either."
Word from the White House staff is that Trump decided to cave on Thursday evening, before the flight delays became evident on Friday.
Of course, this White House lies almost compulsively, so….
There seems to be a surge in public shootings here these couple of weeks. I'm not seeing the provocations for it.
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