Sunday, 7 December 2014

The Asymetric Sunrise

The story of heliocentrism -- the idea that the Sun, not the Earth is at the centre of the "universe" -- is a fascinating tale, full of twists and turns, that spans over 2,000 years. By the time Galileo first turned a telescope on the heavens, the evidence was literally in front of our eyes: it was clear that Jupiter had satellites that orbited it, not the earth, and Venus had phases owing to being lit from different angles on its path round the sun.

But immediately prior to the telescopic era, the most accurate mapping to date of the celestial sphere had been carried out by the Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe. After Tycho's death, his assistant Johannes Kepler analysed his astronomical data to come up with the famous laws of planetary motion.

Kepler worked at the forefront of the mathematics of the time, using recently published tables of logarithms, including logarithms of trigonometric functions (without which he admitted that he would have given up his work as too laborious), and having to develop elements of differential calculus himself. He also, incidentally, had to fight off numerous challenges from Tycho's relatives who wanted to assert rights over the data Kepler was using.

Recently I got into a conversation with some people about the accuracy of Tycho's data, the type and quality of his instruments, and the level of mathematical skill and intuition needed by Kepler. We wondered if today's average educated person could reproduce what he did. We suspected that they could not -- even with the mathematical advances since Kepler's time.

As a lesson in humility, yesterday I was reminded that I have difficulty understanding even the apparent motion of the most conspicuous celestial object -- the Sun. I was out for an early morning stroll on Dun Laoghaire pier, and I snapped this picture of sunrise:


That dark blob on the horizon just left of the Sun is "The Muglins" -- a rock which poses a navigational hazard, and you can just about see the silhouette of its pointed warning beacon. To the right of the Sun, the first tiny artificial protuberance you see is the cylindrical Martello tower on Dalkey Island, built in 1804 at the start of the Napoleonic Wars as a lookout for a possible French invasion. The east edge of the island is visible in this view, but the tower is peeking up from behind the promontory at the end of Scotsman's Bay in Sandycove.

Those landmarks, combined with my known position half way along the east pier, allowed me to get a compass bearing on the position of sunrise. With the winter solstice only a fortnight away I was interested in how much further the sun has to travel to its most southerly point of sunrise. I found the bearing was in excellent agreement with the expected value: 128°, as measured clockwise from north:


Looking up timeanddate.com, I see that the most southerly sunrise will be at 130°, before the sun moves north again, rising due east at the vernal equinox, and at its most northerly point of 47° on the summer solstice.

But hang on! 130° is 40° south of east, while 47° is 43° north of east. The variation in the position of sunrise is caused by the fixed tilt of the earth's axis in space, and it must be tilted toward the sun on one side of its orbit by exactly the same amount as it is tilted away on the other. What gives?

Try checking the position of the sunrise at the solstices for your latitude ... I wonder if you see the same asymmetry.

251 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 251 of 251
Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Pete,

Thanks for the link to the applets. I'll have to save it to my favorates on my home computer so I can browse at my leisure.

When Eratosthenes of Cyrene discovered that the sun was at a different in mid summer between Alexandria and Aswan, and used it to calculate the circumference of the earth,...

I ran across this when I was Googling. Interesting dovetailing with other areas of history I have read about. It would be nice if I had the time to piece it all together.

1) it is not specific to any location on earth, it works for all locations and yields the correct result for that location; 2) the discrepancy is the same for all dates to within a negligible margin, so the solution for a given location on earth works on all dates, not just the date of the equinox.

If the formula works it will need to result in the correct discrepancy for each location at any given date, yes.

As I noted above the discrepancy for Mpls. is 2° as opposed to Dublin's 3° between the summer and winter solstices (June and December). I double checked on timeanddate.com to see if that was the same discrepancy on other dates that were six months apart. Comparing Jan. 1 to July 1 it is 2°, Feb. 1 to Aug. 1 it is 3°, May 1 to Nov. 1 it is 3°, April 1 to Oct. 1 it is 3°, and May 1 to Nov. 1 it is 3°. I am not sure how accurate timeanddate.com is, perhaps the varying numbers are related to rounding errors in its calculations? Or is this of significance to the problem?

Gotta run.




Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Marcus,

I want to reply, but no time at the moment. Later...

Marcus said...

I don't know what the heck you're talking about here really. I could read the blog post and the comments from the beginning and try to find out at least what it is you're arguing about and maybe even try to come up with an answer, or theory, of my own. I'm not a very talented mathematician but I'm not completely useless either.

But I just can't come up with the energy for an effort. I guess one reason is that we're approaching the darkest day of the year, Dec-22, here and I'm feeling like I have no energy at all. It doesn't help that we still have had no nights with frost and instead of cold days with sunshine we've had rain, rain, rain and grey skies. Today I hardly noticed the sun being up at all. It just went from real dark to less dark to real dark again.

Nice as our summers are our winters are really bad, as far as I'm concerned.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "But I just can't come up with the energy for an effort."

I certainly know that feeling.  No damn way I's gonna put in a week on working that one out.  Petes is a glutton for self-abuse.

Marcus said...

Lynnette,

For what it's worth I consider it a real strength of the USA that this investigation has taken place and that some of the results are made public. That means at least that a large part of your establishment and probably a majority of your citizens are not OK with the past transgressions. And, I hope, it will lower the risk of it being repeated in the future.

On a side note we had our little hand in this scandal too. We let the CIA pick up two egyptians on our soil by a CIA plane in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 that flew them to Egypt to be tortured*. The only reason it didn't really blow oup here was that our foreign minister at the time was Anna Lind (crown princess in the Social Democratic party) and shortly after this incident she was stabbed to death by a lunatic in a shopping mall.

So the person most responsible for handing two swedish citizens over for a two year torture spell was dead and mourned. Not even the press wanted to step in with accusations against her.

The two Egyptian borne swedes were innocent and returned in bad shape after those two years. They got some shut-up-money and the story was buried.

* I believe the renditioning of prisoners to torture-willing "partners" is another nasty little open secret that has not yet been disclosed.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "I believe the renditioning of prisoners to torture-willing "partners" is
      another nasty little open secret that has not yet been disclosed.
"

It very well may be included in the report, but just hasn't gotten the press yet.  The whole report is in the neighborhood of 6,000 pages, which I intend to never read if I can help it.

The circa 500 page summary should be sufficient, and it's possible I'll learn enough of what's in it that I'll never have to look at that either.

The rendition question isn't as easy for me as for some other people.  I can't go along with grabbing prisoners with the intention of ‘rendering’ them back home for the purpose of having them tortured, but I have much less of a problem with sending them home for the purpose of summary execution should they be known to pose an actual threat to our security; as opposed to a hypothetical threat at some time in the future, maybe; but yet we can't prosecute them (sound evidence but nonetheless inadmissible in American courts under our rather strict rules of evidence for instance).

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

I always forget about that 200 comment flip of the section and wonder where all the comments went to. *sigh*

Marcus,

Yes, the rectal feeding was news to me as well.

I really, really, don't like the idea that they continued with the various "coercive techniques" on prisoners despite the fact that they had nothing to reveal. That to me is sadistic.

I firmly believe that we have some good people in the CIA and they do not deserve to be tarred with the same brush as the people who participated in this. Intelligence collecting is a necessary part of fighting a war. But getting into the realm of "cruel and unusual" punishment is one of the things the people who founded our country were firmly against.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "I am not sure how accurate timeanddate.com is…"

I wasn't sure what you actually meant by that comment, but I finally decided to give it some attention.
That website rounds off to the nearest whole degree--that's about 70 miles on the ground, so ya figure they're claiming an accuracy (north/south) to within just under 35 miles of their target, give or take.  For somebody taking a wooden sailing ship out of Europe in ye olden days, that'd get ya in the general neighborhood of New York City, or wherever.  Presumably local landmarks could be used from there.  (Also, as most sextants were marked in whole degrees, eyeball estimates of where the reading actually fell in between the machine's marked degrees could get ya considerably closer.)

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

With the different numbers I came up with on the different dates I wasn't sure if it was just because of a margin of error thing.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "I wasn't sure if it was just because of a margin of error thing."

Probably not.  With today's telescopes and computers and satellites, not to mention GPS systems that can fairly easily sit a surface location to within a couple or few feet, they could come up with much more accurate measurements.  They probably just rounded down to full degrees because it's traditional, and because worried ‘bout terrestrial rather than celestial stuff. It's not not an astronomical website.

Petes said...

Marcus, it's rare that I get a chance to gloat about our good weather and it's certainly not the Costa del Sol down here, but by and large we're having a very acceptable winter. Bright and sunny (though cold now), and the last of the leaves have barely left the trees.

I can see that you, on the other hand, are getting the worst of it -- certainly if you've been getting anything like Scotland over the last month or so. For some reason all the Atlantic depressions seem to be spinning up to the north, narrowly missing us but hammering Scotland and Scandinavia.

Yesterday in the Western Isles they recorded 230 km/h winds and seas averaged 15 metres (50 ft). They were calling it a "weather bomb". It rattled a few rubbish bins overnight down here, but we got back to the usual sunshine pretty quickly.

If it's any consolation, you don't have to wait for the solstice for the evenings to start stretching. Earliest sunset is Sunday and they get later from then on. Which must be pretty good news because I see your sunset is a half hour earlier than ours, at 3.35pm. That's pretty miserable.

I wouldn't worry about the sunrise conundrum of the thread. It was a mere minor curiosity, until Lee turned it into a bad-tempered affair. The effect is easy enough to explain.

Petes said...

"With the different numbers I came up with on the different dates I wasn't sure if it was just because of a margin of error thing."

Hi Lynnette, you probably didn't notice but the solstices aren't six months apart. I wouldn't necessarily expect the sunrises to show symmetry on dates six months apart because the earth is moving around the sun at somewhat different speeds at different times of year. But the solstices are defined to be the most southerly and northerly sunrises, which is why I expected to see them showing the same magnitude of offset from east.

The fact that they're not is because of a factor that will also affect those other dates you looked at, in addition to the variable speed of the earth's orbit.

The rounding of the direction of sunrise on the website is sensible, because this factor I mentioned causes large uncertainties in the compass direction, so a precision better than a degree would not be justified, especially at higher latitudes.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "…until Lee turned it into a bad-tempered affair."

You're still good for a laugh; I will give you that much.

Nobody's been arguing about the explanation. It's the name I gave it that first set you off. You don't want to allow me to use standard Merriam-Webster, Common English. And it just so happens that I don't particularly give a damn what you want.
And that's what pissed ya off--how could anyone not give a damn what Petes wants? Your indignation overwhelmed you just about then.

But, there's been no significant argument goin’ on as yet about the cause of the effect. 

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
By the way, you have right at 3½ days left on your self-selected clock, little more, but not much; but nobody'll object I don't think if you decide to get ‘er over with now.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...


"Hi Lynnette, you probably didn't notice but the solstices aren't six months
apart.
"

Last Summer solstice: June 21, 10:51 am (Greenwich time)
Winter solstice: December 21, 11:03 pm (Greenwich time)

Missed being exactly six months apart by 11 hours and 12 minutes over the couse of six months (plus or minus however many seconds Petes can find in additional accuracy so's to be able to declare that to be wrong too).
Next summer solstice: June 21, 4:38 pm (Greenwich time)
A difference of 6 hours 35 minutes (plus or minus however many seconds Petes can find in additional accuracy so's to be able to declare that to be wrong too).

It is important to this thread to mention this, to make sure that these few hours' of variation be taken into consider here and now because: Petes will, no doubt, fill in the rest…

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

Only three days left; tick, tick, tick, …
 
                                 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
      "Oh, and by the same token, the sunset would have to be south of
      west. Check that out for Dublin at the equinox. Nope -- that's
north of
      west too.
"
      Petes @ Mon Dec 08, 11:29:00 am

Actually Petes had this exactly backwards.  The sunset for the same day should be offset precisely the same amount in the same direction at equinox; this is purely a function of latitude from the equator.  And, that is indeed what we found to be true.
It was the sunrise and sunsets for the solstices that should swing back and forth.  But that swing would vary according to winter/summer solstice not by sunrise/sunset.
     
      "The effect you are referring to is not longitude dependent though."
      Petes @ Mon Dec 08, 12:07:00 pm

Of course not; it shouldn't be.  It's latitude dependent; 1½° at Dublin, higher at higher latitudes, lower at lower latitudes, zero at the equator.
 
                                 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
And only three days left.

tick, tick, tick, tick tick, …

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

*sigh*

That's why so much of this stuff kind of slipped out of my mind, so many variables to remember. And, of course, not something I am working with on any regular basis. But it is interesting to dip into, especially with climate change such a near and present event.

It makes it so clear why venturing into space is such a complicated and ambitious endeavor. I have to admire those who are struggling to make sense of our place in our universe.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
 Only two days left; tick, tick, tick, … 

                               ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
      "I'll just wait about a week to give you a chance to explain yourself.
      You won't, of course. And you won't explain
why you won't."
      Petes @ Mon Dec 08, 10:47:00 am 

Of course, I didn't need a week; I already knew why; I could explain it already, So, I did.

      "I mentioned that the sun didn't sit dead east when [Petes] thought it
      should. If you check the web site he gave ya for the spring equinox
     
(21 March 2014) you'll find they compute it comes up about one and
      a half degrees north of due east for his latitude.
"
      Lee C. @ Mon Dec 08, 11:03:00 am

And just for good measure--to make sure it was all clear ‘nuff …

      "@ Lynnette,
            88°30' = 88½°
            88½° is 1½° north of dead east.
            41½° + 1½° = 43° ‘north of east.‘
            41½° - 1½° = 40° ‘south of east’
      "Petes didn't start out with an equinox at dead east is all that he's got
      goin’ on there. The degree and a half that it's off of the 90° mark is the
      parallax.
"
      Lee C. @ Mon Dec 08, 06:20:00 pm

Entirely undaunted, Petes pressed ahead with his little rhetorical war anyway, only to back himself into yet another corner.

                                 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
And, now only two days left.

tick, tick, tick, tick tick, … 

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Feels like spring today. It's supposed to be in the 40'sF.

I see the Russians have been swooping around again. If only they would look where they are going. *sigh*

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

I've been distracted by Christmas things so haven't had much time to do any more reading up on Pete's puzzle. It is always hectic before the holidays.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

   
Only one day left; tick, tick, tick, … 

                               ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Fun facts: 
Macapá, Brazil, latitude 0°, on winter solstice, sun rises at 113° --- that's 23° ‘south of east‘.  That's pretty much the tilt of the earth.  The sunrise in Dublin that day is 40° ‘south of east’  for a variance of 17° between Dublin and Macapá on the equator.
Macapá, Brazil, latitude 0°, on spring solstice, sun rises at 67° --- that's 23° ‘north of east’.  Again, pretty much the tilt of the earth.  The sunrise in Dublin that day is 43° ‘north of east’  for a variance 20° between Dublin and Macapá on the equator.
In Macapá the sunrise swings through just 46°, the tilt of the earth doubled (first one way, then the other).
The swing in Dublin doesn't just track along 1½° offset from the swing in Macapá day after day.  In Dublin the sunrise swings through 83°.
83° - 46° = 37°.  That 37° is the variance of the swing in Dublin from the swing in Macapá at the equator, from one solstice through to its opposite.  We're talking about an offset of 18½° at one point, dropping through zero, up to 18½° the other direction at the other extreme.
It just happens to be 1½° at equinox.  (Well, maybe not ‘just happens’, there is some math behind why that happens.)
 
Writing an equation for both that swing and that variance, one which works for each of 365 days a year across all latitudes, that's gonna be a bitch, no matter what name ya wanna give its component parts.  Doing it in eight characters?  Ain't gonna happen.

                               ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
And now only one day left.

Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, ….

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
And, on another subject…

Our naval laser defense system, supposed to shoot down incoming at American ships at a cost of just pennies per shot, has been certified for battle use.
Imagine this thing in Israel as a replacement for the Israeli ‘Iron Dome’ defense system, which costs around $60,000 per shot to $100,000 per shot, depending on whom one believes.
The Israeli would no longer need to try to take out Hamas missile launching sites, nor go hunting for stashes of those cheap-ass Hamas missiles.  Just kick back and trade Hamas shot-for-shot (using their own cheap-ass, unguided and somewhat erratic, but maybe slightly higher payload missiles) and wait until the Gazans themselves have had entirely enough of the Hamas' missile program and its consequences.

Petes said...

"Doing it in eight characters? Ain't gonna happen."

Fortunately that's not what I said I was gonna do. And seein as I am away travelling and typin on an iPad I ain't gonna get in an argument about it neither. You'll have to figger that out for yerself.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "Fortunately that's not what I said I was gonna do."

Of course not, you've steadfastly refused to actually say what you're gonna do.  (Other than that you're going to tell Lynnette, and, of course the rest of us too, what it is Lynnette was referring to when she mentioned ‘the variance’; you're gonna define her terms for her too.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "You'll have to figger that out for yerself."

You seem to inhabit some imaginary world wherein I've been spending my away time in trying to figure out what the hell you're gonna come up with.
Nope.  Other than what little time I've put in to your cipher right here before you--other than what you've seen--it never occurred to me to take the problem home with me.
Mostly I just figured to help you build up the drama for the unveiling your soon be due Grand ♫♪Ta-Da♫♪  (Notice how it rates capital letters now.)

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
tick, tick, tick, tick,…♪♫DING♫♪

Physics World magazine has selected new ‘milestone’ advances in laser compressed fusion of deuterium-tritium pellets as one of their choices for candidate for the top ‘Breakthrough of the Year’ for physics in 2014.
 
      "Although still far from the long-sought-after goal of ignition, the latest
      results are an important step towards fusion energy.
"

As we all recall, (I recall it anyway) Petes has assured us that the laser compression approach to nuclear fusion is almost certainly never going to work, ever.  (Sun Nov 23, 12:36:00 pm and again at Mon Nov 24, 12:50:00 pm).
   
On the same page at Mon Nov 24, 02:10:00 pm Petes assured us that an earlier ‘milestone’ achievement in 2013 was simply a fraud.

      "The latter [laser compression] was always ridiculous, from the get
      go. Even the Wiki article maintains the diplomatic fiction that they
      'achieved a major milestone in 2013’. That was an attempt to keep
      overpaid public servants in a job for a couple of years longer, after the
      gubmint had finally told them they were pulling the plug on them.
      Everyone who knew anything knew the whole enterprise was dead in the
      water.
"

Presumably Petes counted himself among those ‘everyone who knew anything’.  And yet here they are doing it all over again, making significant further advances in 2014, looking quite undead indeed.
Without the benefit of Petes‘ wisdom on the subject, the folks working laser compression fusion seem to be racking up successes year after year now.  They are obviously in dire need of Petes' expertise and assistance to help them put a stop to that progress.

Maybe he could give them new definitions to use.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

:)

I think we can all appreciate this:


----- THE CANNIBAL





A cannibal was walking through the jungle

And came upon a restaurant operated by a

Fellow cannibal.




Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and looked over the menu....


+ Tourist: $5.00


+ Broiled Missionary: $10.00


+ Fried Explorer: $15.00


+ Baked Democrat or Grilled Republican: $100.00


The cannibal called the waiter over and asked,

"Why such a high price for the Politicians?"




The cook replied, "Have you ever tried to clean one?

They're so full of shit, it takes all morning."

Petes said...

@Lynnette ... LOL.
Would've been more topical though if it was set in Minnesota with peopsicles on the menu ;-)

Been driving around the rural parts of the country here for the last few days. Very pretty winter light from the low sun, with cloud down on the hilltops. The colours are great at this time of year -- fields are green all year round, but the trees are muted brown and yellow and orange, with plenty of evergreen holly and red berries too.

Marcus said...

Oh, don't rub it in Pete. Since last I mentioned our weather we've had even more rain and I feel like I'm starting to forget what the sun looks like.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Our peoplesicles are melting...melting...

Right now we look more like Sweden, rainy. Although they do predict falling temps and refreezing. We're already seeing glare ice up north. Hopefully the snow they are predicting will get here to give us a little more traction. We did have some interestingly mysterious fog this morning. Ahh well, the joys of winter in Minnesota...

Petes said...

Never heard of glare ice, though now I know what it is I've definitely seen it. Any snow we have rarely stays intact for long, but might "slushify" and refreeze.

We've been having some rain too, but in the form of brief showers between sunny spells. Usually our winters are more like Marcus is describing -- unrelenting leaden skies and little sun. Right now I'm looking at another pretty sunrise in partly cloudy skies.

This is a good time of year to get an appreciation for estimating low altitudes. If someone (or some software) tells you a star will be at ten or fifteen degrees altitude, there's a tendency to look much too close to the horizon. But -- similar to the moon illusion (and for the same reason) -- angles close to the horizon look magnified. The midday sun here is now at only 13 degrees altitude (10 degrees for Marcus, 21 for Lynnette) ... but it looks higher. (Does to me anyway, your mileage may vary).

Petes said...

I bought our version of $2.99 gas here yesterday. My diesel was €1.298 per litre. (Equivalent to $6.10 per US gal). Haven't seen it that cheap for a long time.

I see $2.99 is old news in the US -- it's broken $2.50 in the mid west and Gulf coast.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Well we didn't get too much snow. Just enough to have to shovel. But we do have ice underneath. I slid through an intersection this morning, despite my new tires and anti-lock brakes. Luckily the car waiting to cross waited until I had cleared the intersection. I slid around the corner instead of going across. I haven't had that much lack of stopping ability since I hit black ice and just managed not to slide into a ditch. I have traction control on my car so that does help with steering ability.

I just got gas last weekend and it was down to around $2.29 a gallon if I remember right. Yeah, it's sinking pretty fast.

Part of the reason appears to be the slowing of the Chinese economy as well as increased supply. I also noticed that the Russian ruble is sinking along with the gas prices.

Marcus said...

He(ll)ck even our gas prices are starting to come down a bit. Even if our taxes on gas are the bulk of the price it's getting a bit cheaper to fill the tank these days.

I hear the "official explanation" is a price war between OPEC and the shale producers in the US.

But I believe a more credible explanation is an alliance between those two parties to put pressure on primarily Russia (and that Venezuela hurts also is a bonus).

Maybe I'm just too conspiracy minded but I have a hard time seeing that OPEC, many of whose members rely on the US for security, would venture into an all out price war to kill off US oil production.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
I was expecting it to take a few years before the conspiracy theorists raised the ‘conspiracy against Russia fable’ as a faerie tale history.  But, Marcus ain't wastin’ any time.

Marcus said...

Why waste time? Timewasting is wasteful.

On an other matter check these two military commercials out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWqT8Rljt_8

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

The US Marine Corps. ad looks like something straight out of Hollywood, making a military career look glamorous and appealing from a patriotic standpoint.

Not quite sure about the Swedish ad. At first it seems to be appealing to those who want a more exciting job and then it seems to morph into something else. Not quite sure what that something else is. Is it suggesting an invasion or terrorism? As in they need to be defended against?

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "The US Marine Corps. ad looks like something straight out of
      Hollywood, making a military career look glamorous and appealing from
      a patriotic standpoint.
"

Looked to me like it was aimed at teenage boys, target audience.   I think perhaps it was.  (Definitely with the patriotic bent; I agree with you there).
 

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Yup. All those cool looking helicopters and such. My cousin always wanted to jump out of one of those. Unfortunately he racked up his knee in a car accident so that became out of the question.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
I was thinking as much about ostentation show of ‘the group’.  They're selling a chance to be in the ‘cool kids’ clique (or, in this particular case, the ‘tough’ kids, same thing so far as their target audience goes).

Petes said...

"tick, tick, tick, tick,…♪♫DING♫♪"

5 tan(θ)/6

Marcus said...

Any comments on the Cuba deal?

What are the chances this leads to a less strict, or even scrapped, trade embargo?

As far as I have understood things Obama can make some political deals, like opening up an embassy in Havanna, on his own. But changes to the trade embargo must pass Congress and that means convincing at least some Republicans. Have I got that right? If so, what are the prospects for that to happen?

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
The Republican dominated Congress has defined their mission as opposing Obama in all things.  There's no chance it'll happen until at least after the 2016 elections.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
In spite of strongly heald Euroweenie beliefs to the contrary, six out of the past six American presidents (including even The Blessed Saint Ronald of the Ray Guns)  have tried to open up relations with Cuba.  In all cases the efforts were ultimately torpedoed by the Fidel Castro, who feared that greater exposure to American capitalism would threaten his hold on power.  However, Fidel ain't runnin’ things in Cuba anymore.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
For those who remember the Ba'athi tales of Giant Islamic Spiders which were going to do battle in support of Saddam against the infidel American invaders, a new twist.
ISIS is loading shells with live scorpions.  I kid you not.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

However, Fidel ain't runnin’ things in Cuba anymore.

And it is questionable who long his brother will be doing so, as he is 87 I believe.

It will be rather interesting to see how this plays out. There are people in the anti-Castro Cuban community who are up in arms about normalizing relations. I haven't been following this too closely, no time, but after the holidays I will have to start reading up on it.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Hmmm...I think I'd take the live scorpion bomb over the usual run of the mill explosive kind.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "…after the holidays I will have to start reading up on it."

It is a very tired argument (both the one over normalizing relations with Cuba and the real fuss over American politics underneath it).  I was bored with the best they could put forward almost within the hour.

Petes said...

My take on the whole thing was as simple as "Fidel and Raoul will both soon be dead ... let's keep our options open for what happens next (as well as hint to potential leaders that there might be goodies on offer)".

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