I listened to a couple “debates” he engaged in with college students as well as a Q and A he and his wife did for a gathering of young conservative women. I also listened to his show centering around the engagement of Taylor Swift. I am not actually a Swiftie per se, but I do like her. My feeling was that his ultimate goal in the debates was not to exchange ideas, for he was very good at interrupting his opponents and not listening, but to convert those he spoke with, or those who were listening, to his way of thinking. He was proselytizing under the guise of debate. His other venues were just other platforms for him to showcase his ideas, which would be why he was doing them.
I found this debate at Cambridge rather interesting. It’s short.
One of the points I found interesting in the analysis was that when trying to counter the conservative right’s ideas it might be a good idea to try to paint a picture of what those ideas would look like in real life.
I think that what Charlie Kirk was advocating for was a time when women had little or no rights and were treated as little more than chattel by their husbands. Rather like Afghanistan is today. Or perhaps as written in “A Handmaid’s Tale” by Margaret Atwood. Not a world I would like to live in being a woman. For the most part I think I would have issues with a lot of what Charlie Kirk was supporting.
Since Kirk’s murder the responses have been extreme, either crass glee by his detractors or intense grief by his fans. Again, Trump and his supporters have played the divisive card, vilifying everyone on the left as being the cause of Kirk’s death. I beg to differ, the cause of his death was a young man with a gun. A young man whose motive is really yet to be determined, despite all the speculation, as he isn't talking.
Supposedly Charlie Kirk believed in freedom of speech. If that really was the case he must be horrified at the extreme measures his followers are taking to smother it.
62 comments:
"…there was another shooting at a school in Colorado."
Part of the difference in the reaction of the Trumpkins has to do with the identity of the shooters. The kid who shot Charlie Kirk is apparently gay (or "bi" maybe, or maybe somewhere else along that spectrum). There's a bunch of desperate noisemaking on the part of our Trumpkins and right-wingers trying to make him out to be a "leftist" or a liberal of some sort. They're trying to make that the generally accepted "common wisdom" before anybody discovers different. (Truth is, that information isn't out there yet--may be that nobody knows yet what his politics were beyond him being gay. Also true that right-wingers can be queers, so maybe he was a right-winger queer. But they're trying to interdict any such tales being told.)
The kid who shot the schoolkids in Colorado was an outright right-wing, neo-nazi, white supremacist type; no real dispute regarding that history. And they don't wanna talk 'bout that.
"Supposedly Charlie Kirk believed in freedom of speech."
Kirk's supposed commitment to freedom of speech was little more than a cover for his demand that he be allowed to lie flagrantly and frequently without being kicked off the media he used to spread those lies.
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Trump has promised to declare "a national emergency" if the Washington D.C. police force ceases coöperation with federal ICE agents. TheHill
And yesterday Trump said that the election of Socialist Zohran Mamdani (who is running listed as a Democrat I believe) would, should it come to pass, constitute "a rebellion", presumably a rebellion against Trump. Politico
It appears to me that he's attempting to normalize sending troops into Democratic strongholds. He thinks it'll make it less shocking when he does it for real to retain power.
I listened to part of the Kash Patel hearing and the press conference that they held in the Kirk shooting reading the charging documents.
A couple takeaways from the information made public at the press conference.
My first thought was that they have Tyler Robinson cold. For some reason young people seem to text everything. In this case Robinson was texting the day of the murder to his roommate/partner about what he did.
My second thought was as to motive. I think the most obvious will prove correct. Tyler Robinson was apparently romantically involved with a trans individual. Charlie Kirk was anti-trans. Robinson said that some hatred you can't "negotiate away", meaning Charlie Kirk's. Robinson grew up with guns and spent time in areas of the internet that glorified killing. He did what so many young men have done in the past, picked up a gun and tried to make go away an individual who was making him feel less then.
The Patel hearing showcased the path this administration has set us on. People may complain about those who are calling some Republicans and Trump fascists. Yet, the ideas that are coming out of that side of the political spectrum are indeed following that path.
To blame the left for Robinson's actions is ridiculous.
It appears to me that he's attempting to normalize sending troops into Democratic strongholds. He thinks it'll make it less shocking when he does it for real to retain power.
Agreed.
Here is a good explanation of the darker side of the internet that may have influenced Robinson.
The "darker side" was also the realm of Charlie Kirk. They're killing each other.
But, yeah, that was a fairly good starting explanation for the uninitiated.
The Department of Justice has quietly removed access to a government study turned in in 2024 that shows right-wing fanatics commit roughly six times as many politically motivated homicides as left-wing fanatics (both in number of incidents, and number of dead bodies) TheHill The research is an embarrassment to the Trump administration, which is trying to argue that liberals are the greater danger to political peace in Trump's America. So they decided to get rid of the evidence following the shooting of Charlie Kirk.
Just like they are whitewashing any history pertaining to slavery.
I have heard that this time around the Democrats are not going to cave in the government shutdown battle. They want the funding for Obama care to continue.
This could get interesting, as Republicans are finding that many of their constituents use it for their health insurance.
Jimmy Kimmel's show was pulled over his Monday night monolgue showing Trump's rather odd response to a reporter's question on how he was holding up after the death of his friend Charlie Kirk. Trump seemed to brush it aside to talk about his ballroom.
The heads of mainstream media seem to be folding right and left. They will wither away into Pravda with no one watching them except those that have drunk the Kool Aid.
Nope. It was actually this comment that did Jimmy in.
The MAGA Gang (is) desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it,” Kimmel said. “In between the finger-pointing, there was grieving.”
Trump's unweaponized FCC took offense at that.
"The heads of mainstream media seem to be folding right and
left."
The heads of mainstream media are no longer merely heads of the mainstream media. They're agents of the corporations that own controling interest in those media companies. In the case of ABC, it's Disney that owns 'em. For CBS it's Paramount. These are entertainment companies, and the "heads" of the owned media are charged with sending in the most money to the corporate owner. Standing up for the media's "integrity" is low on the list of duties they're charged with. (And besides, late night talk shows aren't bringing in the revenues they used to. The competition with Youtube and TikTok and such is cutting their profits way back.
Just a few weeks ago Trump was gloating over Steve Colbert being dropped by CBS, and saying that Jimmy Kimmel would be next. Turns out Jimmy Kimmel was indeed next.
The Russians sent three fighter jets over Estonia on Friday, roving around potential targets until scrambled NATO fighters (not including an American contribution) drove them off. The White House has not bothered to notice, nor to notice requests for a comment on the matter. Reuters
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I also noticed some recent Ukrainian claims that they've blunted the Russian's summer offensive and that they're taking back land in the Donbas regions.
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"Counter-strike. NATO and the E.U. nations should now make
a counter-demand…"
Lee C. @ Sun, Sept 14, 9:25 pm (prior thread)
They Europeans have settled on an even less aggressive counter-move. They've begun a process of speeding up a ban on E.U. purchases of Russian energy. This leaves Türkiye, not a member of the E.U., outside the new agreement. (Also means they've got to sell it to Orbán of Hungary and Fico of Slovakia, or figure out a way to get around them again, but that's more likely than them getting compliance from Erdoğan.) The Europeans will simply ignore Trump's demands that all NATO nations swear off Russian energy imports by pointing out that only one holdout exists, and that's Türkiye--and Erdoğan is a good buddy of Trump. Less confrontational with Trump to simply claim they've effectively complied with his demand, and make him bring up the subject of Turkish non-compliance.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Europe will figure out a way.
I watched the Farm Aid concert last night. Stayed up way too late to see Willie Nelson. At 92 he still managed to rock the house. He had his family with him to help. There is some real talent there. There was also a lot of free speech going on. Wonder it anyone will notice or if they will wrap themselves up in Charlie Kirk.
It was nice to find like minded people who weren't afraid to call bullshit when they see it.
Late yesterday Trump posted a demand that U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi file federal charges against Sen. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), New York Attorney General Letitia James, and former FBI Director James Comey. He did not specify what the charges might be, but presumably he meant to demand felony charges. TheHill
It did not read as a suggestion or request, but rather as an order.
(I'm beginning to think that Trump's losing it, to use the colloquialism. Probably early/mid stages; be awhile yet before he's obviously nuts in public.)
I've always thought he was showing signs of dementia, even in his first term.
The disappointment has been in how many of the Republicans are enabling him.
At least a judge threw out that ridiculous lawsuit against the NYT.
The judge threw it out with leave to refile. He said that it was political bullshit as written, but that they could try again to rewrite it as an actual legal petition. I s'pect they'll take another shot at it.
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Looks like you're right. The Democrats seem to be working themselves up to accepting a shutdown of the government. That's never worked for the Republicans when they were in the legislative minority. I don't see why the Democrats think it'll suddenly work for them now that the tables are turned. I think they're probably making a mistake with that.
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Trump today designated the imaginary entity they call "antifa" as a terrorist organization. The absence, the non-existence of any such organization didn't seem to faze them one bit.
Trump has cancelled his scheduled Thursday sit down meeting with Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. It would seem that he thinks he can pull off blaming the coming shutdown on their recalcitrance.
Trump seems to have come to the conclusion that with Europe's help Ukraine can win the war with Russia. We will see how long that lasts.
Meanwhile it appears that the Secret Sevice uncovered some kind of set up that could disrupt all cell service in NYC. The Chinese are getting the blame so far.
"We will see how long that lasts."
Trump is notably erratic. And he's not suggested any change in his own "sit-it-out" stance. However, if the Ukrainians can just outlast Trump they have a chance at renewed American support.
"The Chinese are getting the blame so far."
From the on-line noisemakers perhaps. I've not seen much in the way of knowledgeable commentary so far. Being not knowledgeable myself, my speculation would lean towards the Russians from what little I've read so far of the details of the operation
I can see Russia trying to take advantage of a weak president and do as much damage as they can.
The Kremlin "brushed off" Trump's pro-Ukrainian remarks from yesterday. Reuters Probably their best move.
There has been a shooting at an ICE facility in Dallas. The shooter was a sniper and hit at least 2 detainees. The shooter killed himself.
JD Vance is already out there ranting that this was an attack on ICE.
The shooter hit three detainees, killed two (so far), and fired on zero government agents. Possible he was attacking immigrants.
A meeting has been called by Hegseth for all the top brass next week, in person no less.
Unprecedented. Rather disturbing. One wonders, will their oath to support and defend the Constitution(not Donald Trump) if given an unlawful order hold?
"Rather disturbing."
No shit.
The White House is leaking the story that Trump's recent hard line towards Russia's war against Ukraine is just a "negotiating tactic", nothing more. WaPo That word seems to be coming from several insiders at once, so we can be fairly certain it's an "authorized" leak.
Of course, telling everybody that it's just a negotiating tactic pretty much negates the point of employing such a tactic in the first place.
Meanwhile…
“NATO and the European Union…have already declared a real
war on my country and are directly participating in it.”
Sergey Lavrov, Russia's Foreign Minister at the U.N. Politico
That strikes me as clear enough that even Trump should be able to understand it.
Apparently Adelita Grijalva, the Arizona Democrat who won their special election, has run into a problem getting sworn in to take her seat in the House. Mike Johnson has been refusing to swear her in.
This, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she is the 218 vote to move the Discharge petition to release the Epstein files forward.
There are no political 'norms' they will not flaunt. It's part of their personality and their political identity. They cheat for the sake of cheating. Not necessarily to gain advantage, but cheating for it's own sake, even if there's no advantage to be gained.
(She will be sworn in; there's no way around it. And they know that. The current practice of having all members sworn in by the Speaker of the House is simply that--a current practice. But, just as Presidents can be sworn in by any government official authorized to administer oaths (Teddy Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson), so can a Congressional Representative be sworn in by any government official authorized to administer oaths. If Johnson keeps playing games they can just go around him, drop by a notary public's office and get her sworn and be done with it.)
Trump has scheduled a meeting with all four congressional leaders (House and Senate) on Monday. (Regarding the impending government shutdown.) This after he scheduled and then cancelled a meeting with Democratic leaders early this week.
No telling what he'll do come Monday, but that's his latest word on the subject.
Word coming out of War Secretary Hegseth's office has been that Tuesdays' scheduled assembly of generals and admirals was mostly gonna be a PR event, an opportunity for Hegseth to film a lot of promo footage to be carefully edited and shown at some later date in the promotion of Hegseth.
But…Trump has gotten word of a government PR event that did not feature him as glorious leader and stepped in to cure that lack. He now intends to attend the event himself.
Sorry Hegseth, but the Great Orange Leader is bigfooting your self aggrandization event.
Lol!
Never underestimate Trump's ability to grab the spotlight.
What a waste of money.
I think Trump may have miscalculated. Generals and admirals ain't used to clapping for speeches, no matter the speaker or the subject matter (they may clap for troops on parade under some circumstances but that's about it--and ain't gonna be no troops on parade at this show-up). The video of a auditorium full of flag rank military officers sitting on their hands is going to be a downer for Trump (unless they break precedent and decide to clap for speeches this time.)
So now he's gonna take the blame for the costs incurred--and no decent video to show for it. Should have left that blame for Hegseth to carry.
"The military can use dangerous cities for their training ground" according to Trump. Asshole. Martial law anyone?
He's working his way up to cancelling the next presidential elections. He may yet chicken out, but that's where he's headed if he finds the balls to go through with it.
He seems to think that means he'll remain in office. He doesn't seem to know that the Constitution provides that he ceases to be President at noon (Eastern Time) on January 20th 2029. It doesn't matter if he's still sitting in the White House--he'll no longer be President even if he blocked the 2028 elections. The office will fall upon the Speaker of the House of Representatives at that moment even if there has not been an election for a President to replace him.
Mike Johnson, no better.
Depends on the congressional elections (assuming Trump allows those to occur). The House gets a new term starting on January 3rd 2027, and again, same date, in 2029 (20th Amendment) Maybe the Democrats would win the House (Hakeem Jeffries in that case)
If there are no elections, even for House of Representatives, I think the first not term-limited person in the order of succession would be sitting the Secretary of State, assuming he does not resign first. Marco Rubio. Next guy behind him would be Pete Hegseth.
Typo there; should read as: "… the sitting Secretary of State…"
The rot goes deep. I would not want Hegseth anywhere in government. Rubio has shown no integrity or character, so he wouldn't be appealing either.
Oh, there was no applause at that meeting. Maybe it is traditional military behavior, but I hope it was more than that too.
Well, now get to see who takes the rap for the government shutdown.
The Dems need to hammer home the fact that they are standing up to protect our health care either via extending the ACA or Medicaid funding.
Open enrollment starts soon and this needs to be decided upon now rather than later as the Trumpkins want. Of course there is the little fact that Republicans can't be trusted.
It'll take awhile before the competing political shouting shakes out and blame for the shutdown gets noticeably allocated to one side or the other.
I said before I was afraid the Democrats were taking a big chance on this one. I still think so.
You may prove to be right, but this may not be like other shutdowns. I think you may have said it in the past, Republican policies are not that popular with the majority of Americans. In the past when Republicans tried to force their agenda forward via a shutdown they were espousing unpopular policies. This time around they are again crosswise of the majority of American's opinions. Most Americans do want Obamacare extended. And I suspect the same is true for Medicaid funding. Right now polling suggests that Americans are wanting Democrats to stand firm. True, this may not last when the shutdown becomes extended, but I think the Democrats need to take their cues from the American public.
Plus, this shutdown will accelerate Trump's agenda...long before the mid-terms. So people should get a good taste of what his incompetent policies will bring to us.
Just an FYI, Saturday October 18th is the second No Kings protest date. When I looked for my dot on the location map to sign up for it, I couldn't find it. I had to Google "No Kings *insert city*" to find out if they were holding one in the usual place or not. They were. The reason I couldn't find my dot was because there were so many others covering it. Florida, a very red state, is totally covered with location dots for the No Kings protest. Maybe it won't turn out to be a lot of people in each place, but I wouldn't bet against it. Time will tell.
"I think you may have said it in the past, Republican policies
are not that popular with the majority of Americans."
Yes, I have said that in the past. I'll say it again today. Trump's dedicated and loyal Trumpkins are not driven by policy considerations. They're driven by anger and malice, and they're quite willing to ignore the ramifications of his policies in order to indulge that anger and malice. Culture wars, whom they hate, that's what drives them. Or, at least that's been the driver so far. You seem to think this is where it might turn. Maybe you're right.
"Plus, this shutdown will accelerate Trump's agenda…"
Yeah, that had occurred to me as well. The sooner Trump owns the consequences, the better it'll be. The consequences will turn enough independent voters sour on Trump. (Which is why he doesn't want to run again--he wants to cancel the next presidential elections instead.)
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Local note: I thought about mentioning this before, but let it slide on by…
Couple of weeks ago, maybe longer, maybe three weeks. I was in town shopping and taking care of necessary business, and drove right into a public protest on the side of the road (both sides in fact) near a major intersection. 40/50 protestors at least, maybe more (I passed crossways from a side street, made it hard to get a solid count). Against Trump and Project 2025--didn't mention the "No Kings" movement that I could see; they were all about Project 2025. Professionally printed signs, some simple headlines, some bearing explanitory paragraphs for folks who'd slow down and read them. Looked almost professional; somebody in that crowd had some experience in political protests. Not the sort of thing one sees around here in dedicated Trumpkin territory. So, maybe you're right--maybe it'll be different this time when the economic factors kick in.
We can hope.
Someone mentioned to me that when he has been driving in a rural area of my state to go to his family's cabin he always sees protesters on one of the roads. Not a lot, no, but very persistent.
You can go on the No Kings website and get ideas for signs or have some made. Sometimes it isn't always easy to come up with clever handmade signs. But I think I have what I want to say this time around decided on.
Open enrollment for Healthcare plans will be starting shortly. They are already saying premiums are going up quite a bit for just about everyone. So maybe people will notice that the Democrats may have a point in what they are fighting for.
A Trump appointed federal judge has issued a restraining order against Trump's announced intention to deploy "federalized" National Guard units to Portland, Oregon. Associated Press Undaunted, Trump simply announced implementation of the long threatened deployment of troops to Chicago. Associated Press
Doubling down: Trump has ordered the California National Guard (already ordered up to federal control for their stint making trouble in Los Angeles) to deploy to Portland Oregon in place of the Oregon Guard who were just enjoined from doing that same deployment just yesterday. Trump's gonna have 'em playing whack-a-mole if he can swing it.
Much legal politicking going on in Oregon last night. The federal judge who'd blocked Trump's deployment order for Oregonian national guard troops to Portland decided to hold another hearing by telephone, and entered a second order prohibiting the Trump administration from sending national guard troops from any state (and including from Washington D.C.) to Portland. Politico
Now Illinois and the City of Chicago have filed suit against the Trump administration, seeking to preempt Trump's announced move to send troops to Chicago.
This is an important moment for the nation. Trump has about decided to not run for a third term as President and maneuver instead for staying on by military means. It's important to that plan that he 'normalize' having federal troops in the streets of the nation's cities, to put down demonstrations, prior to his declaration that he's staying on in the White House.
If he can't make that stick… Well, Trump is a wuss bully, a coward at heart. He very well may chicken out on his plan to seize the Presidency, if he hasn't already established his power to put troops in the streets. This very well may make or break his plan to stay on in the White House after 2028.
I read that Trump has announced his "openness" to invoking the 1807 "Insurrection Act" to get around the federal courts which are routinely ruling against his claim to power to ignore the "Posse Comitatus" Act and use federal troops against his domestic political enemies.
And the Republican Congress will ignore the threat again, and the Democrats don't have the votes to do squat.
I was talking to someone who works for Pfizer. Apparently Pfizer has made a deal with Trump to lower drugs prices in return for him giving them a break on the tariffs he has put on drug ingredients. Their drugs can be bought for a reduced price through the government on the Trump Rx site.
I saw that about his using the Insurrection Act to get around the courts. Not surprising. It's what a dictator would do.
But he may want to be careful that an insurrection fantasy doesn't become reality.
"Their drugs can be bought for a reduced price through the government
on the Trump Rx site."
And, of course, Trump will take a personal cut of the business. Well the Supreme Court all but legalized political bribery years ago. Ain't surprising that Trump's pushing the envelope there as well.
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