But whatever his motive turns out to be there are two things that are very clear. The first is that all American’s have the right to attend a political rally without fear of injury. While I do not like Donald Trump and do not agree with his past policies, much of his rhetoric or his behavior, I believe the use of violence against him and his supporters is not appropriate. Just as I did not think the violence unleashed on Jan. 6th at our capitol was appropriate. Violence, coercion, and other tactics used to force people to bend to someone’s will have no place in a real democracy. At this time we are in a state of division over how we want to move forward and who we want to lead us. I stand by my belief that Donald Trump and his supporters do not have the way forward for my country. This shooting incident does not change that. But the people at the rally are my fellow Americans and I extend my sympathies to those who were tragically affected.
The second point is that this was gun violence. Perhaps if we were able to come to some bi-partisan agreement on controlling the flow of guns in this country this type of incident would be less prevalent. This, of course, is the thought that jumps to mind after every mass shooting that has happened. However, we have yet to find some agreement on this. Until we do this type of incident will continue to happen; in schools, in malls, in theaters, at political rallies. It will continue to happen whether the victims are Democrats or Republicans, young or old.
Update:
For anyone who has read this post before this update, I just wanted to explain why I changed my title. I do not question Crooks' desire to kill or injure anyone at the rally, including Donald Trump. I question his motivation. To be continued...
65 comments:
It's gonna be hard to rise above the political potential inherent in this shooting. It's gonna be harder yet because of the political potential that Trump will see available.
Earlier this morning, even as you were noting that Thomas Matthew Crooks was looking like a fit to the classic profile for gun violence in America(Lynnette @ Sun Jul 14, 07:53 am--prior thread): The Sunday morning talk shows were blaming this on the 'over-heated' nature of modern American politics. Lotta talk on those shows 'bout how we needed to turn down the thermostat on our political discourse. (I didn't notice any of them had paid any attention to Trump's immediate reaction--fist in the air in defiance, and verbally urging his supporters to "fight, fight, fight". He sure as hell wasn't turning down the temperature. Wasn't his first reaction anyway. But, I digress…)
I think our Trumpkan/Republican citizens are going to be motivated to downplay the 'gun violence' angle and squeeze this for all the political heat they can get out of it. I think I've already seen the first steps towards that use. I think they will resist any effort to view this boon to Trumpian politics as a gun problem, no matter how clear it becomes (or maybe doesn't, but I'm thinkin' that may be how the waters clear). And we seem to have journalist cadre who've immediately jumped to the 'angry, heated political climate and rhetoric' as their preferred bogeyman.
May be hard to see this incident clearly going forward with so many parties seeking to prove it to be evidence of their preferred American story line.
Yes, the media have jumped to conclusions and run with them, automatically assuming it was an assassination attempt. To be honest, that was my first thought as well, given our divisions. I also was not shocked or surprised that something like that could happen. Mass shootings are a problem in this country.
As for the heated rhetoric, Trump has been a huge cause of the divisions within this country because of his lies and over the top accusations vilifying any of his opposition.
I also have no doubt that Trump and his allies will try to turn this to their political advantage. As you said the fist pumping and "fight, fight, fight" was just the start.
The danger posed by Trump's future policy choices has not changed. The danger to our democracy has not changed. As tragic as this shooting was for some of the attendees at this rally, it does not change this fact.
I do think there needs to be a real investigation into the security for the event. The people holding that event had a responsibility to keep the people attending safe.
There are dictionaries which will define 'assassination" as merely the killing of an "the murder of someone famous or important". Cambridge; Merriam-Webster Under such a loose definition this would qualify.
Arguing about using the word here is probably not where I'll choose to plant my flag. I'd just acknowledge that loosely defined, it qualifies, but it may not be a political assassination, just a run-of-the-mill school shooter happened to pick Trump's rally as his target rich environment. (In fact, I've read that the loose collection of nerds and outcasts that most closely qualifies as Crooks' 'clique' in high school were noted for wearing Trump regalia.)
"The people holding that event had a responsibility to keep
the people attending safe."
The Secret Service has already begun to duck and cover. They've released info that the rooftop in question had been identified as a risk, and had been assigned to local law enforcement. (Local law enforcement may decide to contest that information, but the finger pointing has already begun.)
Tidbit: Thomas Crooks had attempted to join his high school's rifle team (heavy Republican area--they got a high school rifle team). However, he didn't make the cut. Wasn't a good 'nuff shot.
Yes, I have been thinking about my title. I really should have said "political" assassination. As my question was whether his motivation had to do with politics. Hinckley's didn't.
Well, in defense of the title: When the FBI announced they were going to classify and investigate the shooting as an attempted assassination (with the rush of headlines and other publicity that followed that decision), they weren't meaning to follow the loose definition of "the murder of someone famous or important". They meant a political assassination. And they didn't add the adjective either.
Thank you, but I changed the title anyway. I too was speaking in shorthand and I want to be clear for the record.
Tidbit: Thomas Crooks had attempted to join his high school's rifle team (heavy Republican area--they got a high school rifle team). However, he didn't make the cut. Wasn't a good 'nuff shot.
If this is true you may have the motivation right there. If he really was bullied he may have had the same mentality as those who join cults. He wanted to fit in, so he tries to adopt the regalia of Trump supporters, tries to join the rifle team and is rejected by a group he wants to be a part of to feel included. Angry at being rejected he chooses to shoot up a Trump rally thinking if he does shoot the former president he can show those who rejected him that they were wrong.
Just a theory. I still think this will turn out to be the kind of motivation rather than political.
I don't think Trump is going to along with any pleas to 'dial back' the political heat. I don't think the dedicated Trumpkins would go along with any effort to turn down the hate level. And I think Trump knows that.
No. I watched a video of Biden's speech from the Oval Office that was posted by Fox News and part of one posted by another media outlet. The commenters on the Fox News video were still using the derogatory verbiage to describe Biden's speech. Pointing out at many gaffes as possible instead of just taking it at face value as a talk to try to unify our country. They will continue the divisive language of Trump.
It is also in the Republican interest for the Democrats to tone down the "Trump is a threat to our democracy" rhetoric, pushing the narrative that it is hyperbole and has no factual source.
The policies of both parties need to be made clear to the American people so that they can decide if he is.
Well…. Trump says he's rewritten his convention speech. He's going to be a "unifying force" at the convention he says. Quit throwing shivs at the American enemies.
I wasn't expecting that.
And I'm not sure his Trumpkins will respond well to it.
Guess we'll have to wait and see if that flies with his folks.
And, just by the way… Nikki Haley has completed the abject surrender to Trump that I argued earlier she hadn't actually done. (Lee C. @ Thu Jul 11, 07:09 am--prior thread)
Word is out that she's now coming to the convention after all, and will be given a speaking assignment to pump for Trump. What a difference a failed gunman can make.
More good news for Trump:
"Judge Aileen Cannon has dismissed the federal criminal case
against Donald Trump charging him with amassing highly
sensitive national security secrets at his Mar-a-Lago estate and
then obstructing government efforts to reclaim them."
Politico
She said the appointment of Jack Smith as a special counsel to investigate and prosecute Trump was unconstitutional. (I think this was decided otherwise half a dozen times in half a dozen other courts. Maybe now the 11 Circuit will remove her from the case. Or, maybe Trump will skate now.)
Or, maybe Trump will skate now.
He probably would have just pardoned himself after he got elected. *sigh* After this ruling I am starting to lose hope for justice.
Biden was on 19/20 minutes or so. I thought he showed better this time than in his interview with Stephanopoulos. Looked as good as he did in his post-NATO press conference.
Well, dang it. I missed it. All CNN was covering was the RNC so I turned it off. Maybe I can catch it on YouTube.
I tell you, I'm already starting to dread another 4 years or more of having to listen to Trump and tolerate his incompetent governance.
Saw Trumps new hair style for the first time tonight. The sweep from the left rear forward and across his brow has been vandalized to try to cover the growing bald streak down the middle. Doesn't work; doesn't cover. Bald streak over the middle of his head is no longer concealable, although he may not yet know that. So now he's got like three separate parts on top, with hair goin' ever which way and what looks like bangs drooping over each eye with empty space in the center.
(I'm assuming that he had his new hair professionally done in honor of his first appearance at the national convention, and this is indeed as good as it gets.)
It makes his head look flat.
In trolling one of the comments sections attached to one of my favorite Ukrainian vlogs I noticed there are quite a few people who don't really like JD Vance, especially those in Ohio. They seem to think he will be a drag on Trump. Hmmm...one can only hope.
"I noticed there are quite a few people who don't really like JD
Vance, especially those in Ohio."
Yeah, Vance actually did rather poorly (comparatively) in his race for the Senate seat. Run the numbers and he did worse than any other Republican running for statewide office in Ohio in 2022. He bounced up a few points after he was endorsed by Trump and that got him through the primary and into the Senate seat. (Ohio is hard-ass Trump country--not a swing state.) But that was Trump carryin' him; not him helping Trump.
Lotta Trumpkan/Republican talking heads seem enamored of Vance for his theological pretenses, and want to believe he'll also appeal to and bring in the urban working-class and rural semi-Trumpkins to vote for Trump across the mid-West rust belt (Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc.) But, a real look at who supports JD Vance doesn't seem to support that theory as of yet.
This may have been Trump's first real mistake of his campaign.
Personally, I think he's got a kinda sleazy vibe that won't play all that well with the calloused hands crowd. Sort of a baby-faced Ted Cruz.
He is not very popular with those who support Ukraine. Because they know he doesn't. I think there are still people out there who understand the danger posed by Putin and are willing to stand up and fight for democracy. In this case by helping Ukraine.
I have not been watching the RNC at all. I just can't listen to all the lies and propaganda, not to mention the hypocrisy.
I tried for the 2016 election. I wanted to be fair so I watched some of both. Nope, not going to waste my time.
I've not been watching either. (I do have a habit of leaving a TV on in the corner, and I've stopped to watch a few minutes here and there, but I've moved on after just a few minutes.) I may settle down for JD Vance's acceptance speech tonight, or may not. Depends on how I feel at the time.
I decided I was going to catch Vance's speech. A lot of Trumpkan/Republicans have absolutely no clue who he is, so he's going to need to try to introduce himself to them. Figured I might wanna see that.
I haven't caught the Vance speech yet. But Trump just made his entrance. The flathead look persists. Worse yet, he's got tufts sticking up on three corners of his head. (He seems to have thought the cameras would somehow fill in the blank spaces behind the upturned tufts of hair. He was wrong. This new hair is indeed gonna be a work in progress.)
Well when it rains it pours. Biden has tested positive for Covid. Hopefully it is a mild case.
Interesting tidbit, I was talking to someone tonight who mentioned that a number of his Republican friends, he is a Democrat, do not like the Supreme Court's decision on presidential immunity. I don't know if it would make them abandon Trump, but it's interesting nevertheless.
Vance is not through with his speech, but I may be done watching.
I am pleased to note that he is not a particularly good public speaker.
Sarah Palin had him beat there.
But, he may indeed be the brilliant right-wing theologian they say he is. I s'pect I'll learn more 'bout that as the election season progresses.
"…a number of his Republican friends…do not like the
Supreme Court's decision on presidential immunity."
No. Won't keep 'em from voting for Trump. Too bad to.
A name. Jill Biden. She is younger than Trump at 73 years old. She has been part of government for a number of years and has access to Joe Biden's knowledge and is very well educated.
A possible choice that Joe Biden would support if he steps down. But would the American people?
Part of the reason so many Democrats are impatient for Biden to bow out now, now! now! now! hurry! now! is that they want to get their 2¢ in on the fight to be his replacement. If it goes long Kamala Harris will get the post by default, and they'll not get to fight about who gets in. They're not gonna go for Biden pulling a Juan Perón maneuver on 'em and sliding Evita (Jill) into the role.
Besides, I see no reason to believe she'd want the job, or want to any part of being a daily reminder to Joe.
And no. I don't think it'd fly with the American public. Too cute by half.
By the way, ABC/538 still shows Joe Biden as favored to win, as of yesterday.
Dang! I thought I had found an out for the Nancy Pelosi crowd.
Maybe they ought to give him their advice (quietly) and let him think on it for a few days without being badgered.
He didn't say he'd not withdraw. He said he wouldn't be "pushed out".
Lynnette and Lee C.,
Hey, it's been probably a couple years now since I last stopped by. Well, I just wanted to say hello and see how you're doing.
I'm currently living in Ivano-Frankivsk, Ukraine. As usual, I have a bike and I'm riding around the city and nearby countrside most days.
I see you guys are still talking politics. I'm assuming that both of you also have lots else to do in your daily lives and that this is more like a hobby and chatting with a good friend.
Jeffrey
Hi Jeffrey,
So nice of you to drop by. I'm doing fine. I've had some issues with family, but it is what it is.
You are in Ukraine? I see you are in the western section, which is safer. I googled the city and it looks lovely. It is so sad what has happened in the east and the country as a whole.
Yes, I still use the blog as a place to vent. As does Lee, I think. I tend to focus on current events, and unfortunately we are in the midst of a heated presidential election, so I write about politics a lot. But we face other important issues, such as climate change, and as you know the situation with Russia/Ukraine.
Are you teaching? Or just seeing the world in retirement?
You may be right about Jill Biden not being a good choice, Lee. I ran it by someone else and she agreed with you. She also is a firm anti-Trumper and will vote for whoever opposes him.
I think the Democrats who are coming forward to talk to Biden about stepping down should put forth some ideas on who should replace him. In the long run, if he does step down, it will probably be Kamala Harris.
I may listen to Trump and see what he has come up with after the shooting. I'm curious to see what affect it had, if any. I hold out no hope that it will change any of his policy ideas. It will probably just encourage the delusion that he has been sent here by God, as some of his more ardent supporters seem to think.
"Democrats who are coming forward to talk to Biden about
stepping down should put forth some ideas on who should
replace him."
Well, I don't think this applies to the Democrats who are coming forward to talk to Biden. But the Democrats who are talking to the press are mostly interested in seeing Kamala Harris moved out of the way along with Biden (not exclusively but mostly)
They have their own political careers to nurture and being a supporter of a grateful President is a good thing even for politicians who have no pretense of making the grade themselves.
The Democrats ought be spending their media time castigating the Trumpkan/Republicans for the unfettered BS coming outta Milwaukee every night. Instead they're feeding the 'dump Biden' frenzy, and they're not telling us who their proposed replacement is. This is not an accident. (And it's not Kamala Harris either. The people who want it to be Kamala have already said her name--small group.)
Trump's made his grand appearance. He's reverted to last month's hair swirl, modified version thereof. It's weak in the center, but that can't be helped these days. And he has raised his hairline appreciably, front hairline. Beats yesterday's tufts on the corners.
Starting to feel nauseous already, and it's only Kid Rock. I muted everyone else so far.
“People will just believe you. You just tell them and they
believe you.”
Trump to Billy Bush in 2005
So, for a good chunk of the address he just lied as fast as he could. (I couldn't help noticing he threw in at least one of his 'sir' stories where people he never names call him 'sir' and beg for permission to agree to whatever he wants.)
“People will just believe you.”
But I don't think the dedicated Trumpkins will actually remember much of what Trump said tonight. (Except for the slogans they've already memorized.) Wasn't any feeding for the frenzied (and that's what they came for). Indeed Trump even stepped on a couple of spontaneous uprisings began when the Trumpkins recognized a passing buzzword.
But I do maybe believe the claim that Trump wrote the first draft of that himself. The melodrama was thick and sticky while he was reveling in his own version of how he got his ear nicked.
I fell asleep during the first part where he sounded more subdued and conciliatory. Apparently I missed the devolving back down into standard Trump.
The talking heads on CNN are saying the race is back on. They feel Trump's speech was a gift to Democrats.
Still flat head with more wispy fronds going here and there.
Also he too is looking old.
"They feel Trump's speech was a gift to Democrats."
They may be right. Could have been a bigger gift though; could have been vintage Trump, but he tried to tone it down a little from his rally persona. (This caused some of the floor crowd to go to sleep.)
It's kind of a problem for Trump--his rally persona that the dedicated Trumpkins love so much isn't well suited for leaking out to the general public.
Neither is Project 2025.
"Also he too is looking old."
Up late four nights in a row. Luckily for him, his riffs don't require him to remember anything 'cause he just makes shit up as it suits him in the moment.
Lynnette,
Family matters? Oh yes, there are always those. For my family, over the last decade or so, the biggest was handling our parents as they aged and then passed away. As children, that was priority number one.
I have five sisters and two brothers, so there’s also lots of issues that pop up every year. The latest was one of my sisters getting divorced after a long marriage and with grown children.
I’ve had many long, long phone calls with that sister. Lots of twists and turns. The divorce has now been finalized, legally recorded, but for the last half year, it’s been a grindingly slow process of dividing the financial assets. The lawyers for my sister and her ex-husband have been making a killing. I learned from my sister that the lawyers charge in ten-minute increments for everything they do. Dang.
About Ivano-Frankivsk. Ivano-Frankivsk is a garrison town, with lots of soldiers in camo walking the streets. They come here to western Ukraine to take a break from the fighting in the east. Also, some of them are stationed here.
A couple weeks ago, I rode out to the local airport, which has been converted from an international airport into a military base. The main terminal building had sandbags in all the windows and it was crawling with soldiers. I lifted my camera to snap a photo and almost got shot (almost, Lee, almost). Fortunately, I explained to the soldier who wanted to either shoot or handcuff me that I was American. I showed him that I hadn’t taken a single photo and then we shook hands, but I did ride away pretty quickly.
I hear jets flying from there most days. If Ukraine ever gets those F-16s, I imagine a few of them will end up here. Right now, they’re flying MiGs, so we may be able to hear the difference when the F-16s arrive.
As someone who has lived in Europe multiple times, starting all the way back in 1985 in what was then called West Germany, I see the Russia-Ukraine war as a European problem, not an American problem, although we can support Zelenskiy and Ukraine, as we’ve done from the first day of the war.
The European countries bordering Belarus and Russia will finally have to decide that for their own security Putin and the Russian military needs to be defeated. And that means NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine. Maybe you guys know a better way, but that’s how I see it right now.
I’ve read that the US and Germany have agreed to have long-range missiles returned to Germany. Back in the mid-1980s, when I was living there, there were many protests by German college students and leftist radicals against US missiles on German soil and pointed at the Soviet Union. Let’s see if there are protests now.
Jeffrey
Lynnette,
Oh, I'm retired now, just bumming around Europe -- for almost three years now. I need to jump back and forth from Schengen-area countries to non-Schengen countries to avoid visa issues. Ukraine is a non-Schengen country and that's why I'm here for now.
And it is safe here, although we do hear quite a few air-raid sirens and we only get about 12 hours of electricity in a 24-hour period -- usually three hours on and three hours off. As you can imagine, every business has a generator. The supermarkets have massive ones.
Jeffrey
Jeffrey,
Yes, my family matters were and are something similar. My parents passed away within the past 7 years and helping them was a priority for some time. Now it is my sister, who has had health issues since she was young, and just recently had a stroke. There are just 3 siblings, I am the youngest, so it is kind of difficult as my brother and his family offer little support. You are fortunate in your siblings.
I am still working but have recently reduced my hours to deal with the recent events and cut the stress. The blog and my discussions with Lee are a welcome distraction. Although I do manage to do some real life fun things as well.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is indeed a European problem. But, unfortunately, their problems tend to become ours. It is better for us to stand with our friends, so that they don't fall into the camps of our enemies. Unlike some in my country I do not think it wise to try to go it alone on the world stage.
I think the biggest problem is that China and others are helping Russia. It is in their interests to throw a spanner into the works, so to speak. They do not want the US to have everything its own way. And China, I suppose, likes the idea of having a vassal state(Russia) with lots of oil next door. Not to mention this is rather a test of how a Chinese invasion of Taiwan could play out. Will the US and the West in general stay the course to the bitter end?
Putin is not young. Eventually he will be gone, and then what of Russia? I think that may prove a serious issue in the future. For all of us.
As for our future support of Ukraine I fear that will depend on the outcome of the upcoming election. The Republicans, and Trump, do not seem to want to stand against Putin, for whatever reason.
Btw, when I want a break from politics I do check out other things. If you do YouTube at all there is a young Russian who is traveling to various countries and uploads videos of his journey. His name is Niki Proshin. He is a pleasant change of pace from the more serious issues bedeviling us.
It sounds like the Russians tried to send forces to rescue their soldiers who are still trapped in the aggregate plant in Vovchans'k. They are now all at risk of being encircle by Ukrainian forces.
Jeffrey,
You are lucky your photo opportunity didn't end badly. My guess is the Ukrainians are rather touchy about that kind of thing around their military bases.
From what I'd read the Russians were attempting a counter assault to the south hoping to get in behind the Ukrainians in the area they once called 'the Citadel'. Both forces trying to flank the other. ('Course it's been a couple of days since I heard an update on that.)
Looks like it's official. The D.C. Democrats have defeated Joe Biden's 2024 reëlection bid. Now the question remains whether they can defeat Donald Trump.
(Biden will endorse Kamala Harris.)
I saw. I don't know how to feel except sad for President Biden, one of the better presidents we've had. I wish it had ended differently for him.
Trump is out there calling him the worst president when in fact it is Trump who is one of the worst. So sick of his lies.
"I don't know how to feel except sad for President Biden."
I wrote earlier that I had no sympathy to waste on Joe Biden. Turns out I was wrong. I do feel bad for him. (Maybe not sad; maybe too much indignation mixed in for that.) I was always something of a fan of Biden's, always thought he was underrated. His common man persona woulda worked out better in the Republican Party though (the old Republican Party, pre-Trumpkan). And the Republicans have certainly feared and despised him for years; they thought he was seriously underrated too. I know, I live in a solid 'red' area where Biden has been especially despised among Democratic Senators for years.
I think Biden woulda stuck his finger in the eyes of the Democratic establishment and run anyway, if it hadn't been for the fact that the true enemy is Trump. And Trump is still the threat. He recognizes that even if the D.C. Democrats didn't. He's a patriot; he put his own wants second to what he saw as his current best opportunity to help stop Trump. He quit because his own party kneecapped him, and he's afraid he can't beat Trump for the Presidency running on knees. Hoping Kamala can get a clearer shot at it.
Might be worth noting that Nancy Pelosi's statement on the Biden withdrawal didn't endorse Kamala Harris.
A House divided cannot stand. That goes for a political party too. I hope the Democrats will come together around the next candidate, whether it is Harris or not. It doesn't matter for my vote. I will always vote for the candidate who really supports democracy and that has never been Trump. And it never will be no matter how many lies he tells to the contrary.
Manchin is considering a run for president. The sharks are smelling blood in the water.
It's way too late for Manchin to run as an independent, and he's got zero chance of successfully challenging Harris for the Democratic nomination. He knows this. He's not actually considering a run. But he's always eager to stir up headlines which promote Joe Manchin. That's what he's doing here.
While calling for Biden to step aside, Joe Manchin said:
“I came to the decision with a heavy heart that it’s time to
pass the torch to a new generation”.
Biden is 81 years old. Trump is 78. Manchin is 76.
Manchin is not a member of the new generation.
Kamala Harris is 59. I would love to see her debate Trump. Although given that Hillary Clinton won the debates against Trump and still ended up losing due to the Electoral College I know that won't mean anything in the end.
Trump has already officially pulled out of the second scheduled Presidential Debate.
I don't know if that's a final decision, but it's already been announced by the Trump campaign.
NBC just said that Harris has received donations amounting to $27.5 million in the first five hours of her candidacy.
Trump has already officially pulled out of the second scheduled Presidential Debate.
Cowardly move. There's a chance people will notice.
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