After 20 years the United States is removing its military forces from Afghanistan. For many in Afghanistan a tragedy, for many in the United States a relief. As we have seen the desperate scenes of terrified Afghans mobbing the Kabul airport, risking their lives to find a way out, some have second guessed our decision. Here I am just speculating on the validity of the reasons for withdrawal, not necessarily the way it was and is being conducted. Those are questions that will need to be addressed after all this is done.
We entered Afghanistan on the orders of George W, Bush, hunting terrorists. We made an agreement with the Taliban to withdraw on the orders of Donald Trump. The actual withdrawal is taking place during the administration of Joe Biden. This is a war that has occupied the attention of four presidents.
My first reaction was that this was a serious foreign policy mistake on the part of Biden. That may well prove to be so, but perhaps cooler heads are correct in that it is too soon to tell. As I listened to various voices expressing their agreement or disagreement I was struck by this video of an interview with a Taliban fighter earlier this year.
Interview with Taliban Fighter
He made two points which sum up the past and the future.
In 2020 Donald Trump made an agreement with the Taliban to withdraw our forces. It is this that has allowed the United States to maintain a residual force of soldiers in country in a state of relative peace. Joe Biden had a choice, break the agreement and resume a hot war with the Taliban, risking more lives and treasure, or keep the agreement. He appears to have made the choice that the United States has other pressing issues that will take our undivided attention and large amounts of financial resources to deal with. It is also true, as Biden pointed out, that it is for the Afghans to make a choice as to what kind of country they want. It is their place to fight for it. Their place to own it.
The second point made by that Taliban fighter suggests that Afghanistan's future is still to be decided, even after the Taliban have taken control of the country. “Afghanistan is run by the system they (the US) built.” The Taliban will have a challenging time running Afghanistan from a purely practical standpoint, let alone religious. Cutting a deal with others; the Russians, the Chinese or other regional players, may prove to be the ultimate solution for them, but given past history or current policies, that may prove to be problematic.
This even as climate change starts to roll ever more steadily over the planet.
The one thing I do know for sure, we must stand by those who stood by us. It is imperative to keep our word. Those who wish to leave, must be evacuated as expeditiously and safely, as possible.
80 comments:
Question, does the baby that was delivered in the C130, which had landed at Ramstein Air Base in Germany, hold Afghan, German or American citizenship?
The baby is an Afghan. Germany grants "birthright" citizenship to the babies of foreign nationals only if one of the parents has had legal German residency for eight years (consecutive) prior to the birth and has acquired permanent legal residency by the time of the birth. Our rules are a little looser, but being born in the hold of a military cargo plane somewhere in the air over Asia ain't 'nuff to swing it.
"…we must stand by those who stood by us."
Too many people seem to have that backwards (as above).
We got roped into trying to save their country from the Taliban, whom the soon to be refugees deplore. And now we've stood by them for twenty years while they failed to stand up by and for themselves.
The fact that they have developed a whining dependency on our continued support is not enough, in my opinion, to establish a never-ending duty on our part to "stand by those who" mostly learned how to make their living off of our efforts on their behalf.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
To follow up on your comment from the prior thread, about the media "howling" about the mess we've made of the final withdrawal from Afghanistan….
Chuck Todd, on Meet the Press took time yesterday to make note of the fact that the Afghan withdrawal isn't breaking into the top level concerns of the American voters (neither Republican nor Democrat) in spite of the extensive and unremitting efforts of the media (both main stream and FoxNews) to make the general population take up the media's concern over the issue. It's just not comin' back up when they then turn 'round and ask about the public's concerns.
So far he's the only "concerned" journalist I've noticed who's ready to admit that they're not making that issue stick in the craw of the American voters, in spite of their most heroic efforts. (It's in the "Data Download" section near the end of the show in case you want to go look it up.)
Side note to that… It's too early for me to say with any confidence, but early indications from internal finger-pointing within the Biden administration (to the limited extent that's leaking out this soon) seems to indicate a gathering consensus that the military neglected to prepare for the final withdrawal because they insisted on believing that they were eventually going to roll Ol' Uncle Joe and reverse his decision to pull out. They figured actually prepping for a worst case end-game was a waste of their time and effort--right up to the point where they finally couldn't pretend any more.
Not clear to me who's gonna ultimately take the rap for that; nor is it clear whether or not they eventually told Biden they weren't ready, maybe they did finally admit to that (or, maybe not) but if they did admit it he apparently didn't believe them--thought they's still trying to roll him.
It's beginning to look to me like we'll have to wait 'til the dust settles on that fiasco and "Uncle Joe" quietly (more or less) takes some scalps in the Department of Defense and at the Pentagon, probably no earlier than next year. Then we'll know who caught the blame for that mess (inside the Biden administration--Biden may never go public with that info).
Too many people seem to have that backwards (as above).
We got roped into trying to save their country from the Taliban, whom the soon to be refugees deplore.
I would have to disagree with this. We originally entered Afghanistan because George W. thought it would be a good place to find and take out AQ and Osama bin laden. I am sure there were those in Afghanistan who we hooked up with who did help us.
And now we've stood by them for twenty years while they failed to stand up by and for themselves.
The length of time we spent there has always been open to question, especially once bin Laden was dead. As to their failure to stand up, I suspect that is rather complicated.
In any case, I do believe we have an obligation to help those who want to escape. Whether or not we ultimately help anyone else there would probably depend upon how good the Taliban's word is ( I suspect not much).
Chuck Todd, on Meet the Press took time yesterday to make note of the fact that the Afghan withdrawal isn't breaking into the top level concerns of the American voters...
Nope, I didn't think it would, which was why I still think this is more of a foreign policy issue.
The withdrawal from Afghanistan has already fallen off the front page of my newspaper.
Most Americans are self absorbed creatures.
Oh, and I don't think much of Republican efforts to make Trump's agreement with the Taliban some kind of hoax. I doubt he was scamming them. I think he would have went through with it, with their support.
...a gathering consensus that the military neglected to prepare for the final withdrawal because they insisted on believing that they were eventually going to roll Ol' Uncle Joe and reverse his decision to pull out.
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Only time will tell whether or not the military was right in not wanting to withdraw.
Seriuosly, we really could use some of those Afghan refugees here. We are short workers everywhere! Maybe we can get some from Wisconsin.
I'm starting to think that Americans don't want to work anymore at all.
The report with the results of the audit of the Arizona presidential election has been delayed because several of the Cyber Ninja's have Covid. Two are rather serious cases.
"We originally entered Afghanistan because George W.
thought it would be a good place to find and take out AQ
and Osama bin laden."
That's true enough, so far as it goes. We had "originally entered Afghanistan" for precisely that purpose. And the Taliban had paid a price for their obstruction. They had to flee to Pakistan close on the heels of their one-time guest.
But, we're talking early December 2001. After December of that first year, which is to say, almost immediately, Afghanistan was no longer a good place to find and take out Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. He'd escaped from Tora Bora on the back country trails into Pakistan.
It was only later that we managed to get roped into 'nation-building' back in Afghanistan and eventually pressed into hands-on military (and especially financial) 'support' for what should have been their fight against the return of the Taliban.
Bin Laden was long gone into the ungoverned 'tribal areas' of Pakistan by that time; he hadn't tried to return to Afghanistan along with his erstwhile hosts. The Pakis offered better protection.
Bin Laden was long gone into the ungoverned 'tribal areas' of Pakistan by that time; he hadn't tried to return to Afghanistan along with his erstwhile hosts. The Pakis offered better protection.
This is true. We had made Afghanistan rather unwelcoming. That Pakistan, a country we have been supporting financially, was a desirable destination is another issue.
I have to give you both credit for more level headed arguments than I might have expected. (Although I still believe you both would have squealed like scalded piglets if the debacle of this exit happened under Trump - and you both know you would have)
Lee: “We got roped into trying to save their country from the Taliban, whom the soon to be refugees deplore. And now we've stood by them for twenty years while they failed to stand up by and for themselves.”
No not really. YOU roped yourselves into that. The whole prospect of building democracy and ensuring women’s rights came not at all from the Afghans, but from the USA. it’s YOUR project that is failing now, even if it’s Afghans who will take the consequences.
Lynnette: “Oh, and I don't think much of Republican efforts to make Trump's agreement with the Taliban some kind of hoax. I doubt he was scamming them. I think he would have went through with it, with their support.”
For sure that was not a scam and the exit had in no way a much better chance at looking like or being a successful end than Biden’s. Trump pulling out might well have looked much the same whatever Orange Man says now.
Lynnette: “ Seriuosly, we really could use some of those Afghan refugees here. We are short workers everywhere! Maybe we can get some from Wisconsin.”
Seriously probably not. You’d have to cherry pick to a high degree. BC most aren’t any better than the Taliban. If you could take only girls then maybe, but they’d be mostly illiterate and not looking to work but to marry, breed and stay at home.
Why is it that folks like you thing people from the most backwards shitholes are an asset if we just bring them to our countries? What do you imagine is the reason for the shitholery in their native lands to begin with? Well let me tell you - it’s the people residing there.
You know Lynnette that the premier pastime of your long since “staunch allies” in the former Northern Alliance were the ones where warlords and top fighters used to keep Bacha Bazi boys for entertainment.
That is these bearded savages used to sit in a ring and have small boys 5-10 yo come in dressed in dresses with bells attached to their feet and wrists, all done up in makeup. The boys would dance for the men and then the men at the end of the evening would take turns and gang rape them. Those are the “good Afghans” in your book. The Taliban outlawed all of that degeneracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi
You want them to move in and work and live in your neighborhood?
I wish I could find that one article I read about a US special forces guy who found an Afghan “ally” in bed with a “tea boy” and beat the living shits outta that fucking child molester. He was dismissed and sent home but I bet that to this day he knows he did the right thing.
Actually it only took me a Google
https://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/28/politics/green-beret-afghan-police-confrontation/index.html
Those are the “allies” Lymnette wanna bring to Wisconsin. I fail to see why.
Here’s a lengthier article:
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-green-beret-sexual-abuse-afghanistan-2015oct17-story.html
“The purchase of a “beloved” boy with effeminate, beardless looks between ages 9 to 16 is a status symbol in some circles. Although the practice is not mainstream, the sexual abuse of boys made to dress as girls and entertain commanders is a well-known subculture.”
And it was actually the Taliban who ended this vile practice:
“Ironically, the Taliban militants infamous for their repression of women also cracked down on bacha bazi, which is taboo according to Islam and mainstream Afghan culture.”
Now that’s not to say the Taliban are good in any way. I just wanted to point out that most of the rest of the Afghans are just as bad, seen through our cultural lense.
So wether you see oppression of women and child brides as the worst or the rape of young boys and still probably oppression of women and child brides. Hell, it’s Afghanistan. The British Empire tried to civilize them, the Soviet Empire tried to civilize them, the US Empire tried to civilize them - and they all failed. Let’s just leave them to themselves why don’t we?
An interesting interview with David Petraeus.
You’d have to cherry pick to a high degree. BC most aren’t any better than the Taliban.
It is sad that Sweden has had such a different experience than the United States with the immigrants/refugees that have reached it's shores. We have been fortunate that for the most part people who have come here have proven to be an asset to our country.
And it was actually the Taliban who ended this vile practice:
If they only had the same concern for women and girls they might not be half bad.
"…you both would have squealed like scalded piglets if the
debacle of this exit happened under Trump…"
I would have expected a disaster along these lines had Trump undertaken the withdrawal. (More on this later…) You might have found me fuming about the efforts of the dedicated Trumpkins to somehow blame the fiasco on Hillary Clinton, or to pretend it wasn't actually a clusterfuck at all but rather another master stroke of the secret Trumpian genius, but that's about it.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"YOU roped yourselves into that."
Not me. (Nor the majority of Americans either, I don't think.) I had a major case of fallin' out with Dubya when he circled back 'round and began to try to "civilize" Afghanistan. (He seemed to think it'd be his consolation prize after having fucked up the democratization of Iraq, but I never bought into the notion--not even a little bit. I did originally buy into the idea we might pull off democratizing Iraq, but that turned out to be way over Dubya's head as well. I came to regret ever goin' along with that latter idea, but I never bought into trying it in Afghanistan.)
And I don't think Trump would have had the balls to pull out if he'd won a second term. (Told ya there'd be more on this later.) The generals would have rolled him just as they seemed to have expected they'd eventually roll Biden. Trump's a coward, a wuss-bully. They'd have scared him out of it with descriptions of "responsibility", one of the several things that frighten him. (Coward: That's why he called for his Trumpkins to come to Washington D.C on Jan 6ᵗʰ (he picked the day and tweeted it out), and then told them that very morning that he was going to lead them to the Capitol Building, and then he wussed out and went back to the White House instead and left them to march up there on their own, leaderless; he's a coward at heart, a wuss-bully.)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"…it was actually the Taliban who ended this vile
practice:"
I'd bet against that; reckon instead they just drove it further underground. They probably indulge in the practice themselves. (Our own Evangelical Protestant Christian preachers routinely get themselves caught in 'vile practices' of one sort or another. And then, of course, there's the ongoing Catholic Church sex scandals. I rather doubt that Muslim fundies are significantly more moral than our Christian fundies. Probably they're just quicker and quieter at killing the unfortunate people who catch them doin' it, but that's probably about the only real difference.)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"Let’s just leave them to themselves why don’t we?"
They may get overly brave after having waited us out, especially after having done the same thing to the Russians. We may have to go back in sometime in the future and chase the quicker ones back into the mountains again.
"An interesting interview with David Petraeus."
Obviously, Petraeus ain't learned squat from his repeated failures. That is rather interesting, in and of itself. (Don't get me wrong; Petraeus has proven himself quite capable of expending massive amounts of our superior military resources and achieving the temporary suppression of a weaker military enemy in the process, but I don't count that as a notably successful military record.)
But, in the end, I guess it's a matter of perspective. All he really seems interested in achieving is acquiring a dominant position in the Forever War. (It has, perhaps, occurred to him that we don't need to flatter and revere generals if we're not fighting wars--so, to maintain his status, he's learned to make sure we keep fighting the Forever War.) Petraeus sees keeping the Forever War going forever as an achievable goal; I still see it as a failure. (Almost looked like he's already plotting how to reopen the Afghanistan theater of the Forever War; probably need to keep an eye on him going forward; he's still young enough to try to engineer a recovery from the sex scandal that took him out of power.)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Word on the morning news is that the Taliban have changed course and are going to prohibit the further escape of Afghan nationals via the American airlift from the Kabul airport, at least selectively, perhaps more generally; reporting seems a little confused on that point. They'll be looking especially to prevent "skilled" Afghans from escaping (and probably be looking for collaborators as well)
Niece was injured in a car wreck Monday evening. She spent Monday night and Tuesday morning on a gurney in the hall outside the emergency room door (door into the hospital proper--not outside in the open air). She was not alone in that hall. Finally they got her into a bed Tuesday early afternoon.
(She's broken up some for the time being, but she's expected to heal within a couple of months without any permanent loss of functions.)
They had no available beds. Two fairly large hospitals in the county and there wasn't an available bed between them for a car crash victim fresh out of the emergency room with a broken pelvis and some major road rash among other notable injuries (she was thrown out of her vehicle through a broken side window).
They're full up with vaccine refusniks. Had no beds available for a young woman was fairly seriously hurt.
Polls are beginning to change on the subject of combating the virus. Quinnipiac poll just in regarding the shifting views in Florida (state with the highest rate of increase in the country):
"Nearly 7 in 10 (68 – 29 percent) say they think local officials
should be able to require masks in indoor public spaces if
they believe it is necessary.
"A majority support 59 – 39 percent requiring everyone to
wear masks while in indoor public spaces.
"A majority believe 64 – 31 percent that masks or face
coverings are effective in slowing the spread of COVID-19.
"Sixty-three percent of Floridians say the issue of mask
wearing is primarily about public health, while 33
percent say it is an issue about personal freedom.
" Republicans stand alone among all groups in saying 58 –
39 percent that the issue of mask wearing is primarily about
personal freedom."
link (PDF file)
Views on vaccinations are trending similar.
They don't believe Marcus; it's not 'like getting the flu' after all.
I do believe this is gonna come back to bite the Republicans in future elections (whether soon enough for 2022--I don't really know).
Lee,
I'm sorry to hear about your niece. I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery. Being younger is a plus.
I visited my friend who was in the hospital over the weekend, no not because of Covid, she had an infection. While I was there the nurse came in and I asked her if they were filling up with Covid cases and she said that so far it was manageable. But, as my friend noted, the wait time in the ER for a bed is rather long. Not as bad as your niece, but not optimum. While they aren't filled with Covid patients yet they are pretty full with other cases. I did read that hospitals in Minnesota have taken some cases from other states, whose hospitals are full.
No, the situation at the hospitals isn't good. And it's rather sad that it has to come to this pass for some people to finally realize the problem with just letting the virus have its way with our population.
As I have said before, I think, I have no problem with mandating vaccines. Now that Pfizer has been approved maybe we will see more of that happening.
"I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery."
I appreciate the thought. But, I tried to make it clear that we do expect a 'full and speedy recovery'. Even the road rash didn't get to her face--shoulder, sides, butt. She got lucky. Gettin' tossed from the vehicle can easily make ya dead. Instead, couple of months and she'll be fine and it'll be just a memory.
Point was, when she was cleaned up, stitched up, drugged down, and cleared out of the ER there were no hospital rooms available to receive her. This is bad.
Lee
“ They don't believe Marcus; it's not 'like getting the flu' after all.”
Well it is. And I never claimed that COVID wasn’t worse then the seasonal flu. I said it was about the same but maybe more lethal.
And now that we hear from Israel, the most vaxxed nation apart from some small island nations, that the vaccine doesn’t even work that well. That it doesn’t protect you from getting infected and that after 6-8 months it doesn’t even protect against serious illness.
So what are we t9 do? Forever lockdowns? Are music festivals with 100K people a thing of the past? Is air travel for anyone beyond the super rich now forever a gone thing? Do normal folks walk around w mouth-diapers everywhere at every time?
"Well it is."
Perhaps you should take a little closer look at that Quinnipiac poll. You're now losing that argument in Florida (where you were winning it just a few weeks ago).
Just digging in (which seems to be all you're doing) ain't gonna swing it back your way.
You need to come up with a new plan.
Local news this morning says, Delta Airlines has announced that their health insurance plan will only provided covid-19 coverage for people who have been vaccinated and who suffer a 'breakthrough' infection, beginning in October. (I presume there are exceptions to this policy offered for legitimate established religious objections and the fairly rare valid medical 'contra-indications' to the vaccines.)
Lee
“ You're now losing that argument in Florida (where you were winning it just a few weeks ago).”
Idk what they’re doing wrong in Florida. But here in Sweden we live our lives relatively normal and have done so throughout this pandemic. We had some early mistakes when we failed to protect the elderly care homes but since then: a consistent policy of kids still going to school, no stupid face masks, congregate in groups of 8 or less and preferably the same people every time, keep distance, wash hands and above all isolate voluntarily if you feel the slightest bit ill. We’ve got less than a perfect record but made it better than many, without draconian measures. I feel we did it the right way, all in all.
Myself I have a group of friends I play cards with and we’ve been able to get together for card playing and drinks throughout the whole pandemic. Only one of the guys got COVID and he most likely got it in transit to his work. So he stayed at home for 2 weeks and then was back at it. I’m older than the rest of the guys so I’m double jabbed now but everyone has gotten at least the first shot, everyone the Phizer vaccine.
Look, I never said COVID was a hoax or a joke or completely similar to the flu. I just said it was actually a flu in a bad version. So these draconian measures taken in some places are insane to me. Collapse an entire society to prevent even one 90 yo from dying from a respitory decease in a nursing home? When 90 yo people die from the common cold of the flu all the time.
And actually, when I write about draconian measures I’m not speaking about the us but more about like Australia where they’ve been batshit crazy over this flu like cold virus with a 99.5% survival rate.
Sorry to hear about your niece, I hope that turns out well in the end.
Lynnette
“ As I have said before, I think, I have no problem with mandating vaccines. Now that Pfizer has been approved maybe we will see more of that happening”
I cannot agree. I myself is already double jabbed w the Pfizer vaccine. But forcing it on people who are reluctant to take it just doesn’t work for me. It’s an incredible assault on the personal integrity to actually force people to be injected w something they do not want injected into their bodies. Look, I believe, as you probably do, that the anti-vaxxers are kooks. I believe that most sane people would reason: yes there is a small risk of health consequences from the vaccine but the illness itself is multitudes worse so therefore getting vaccinated is the way to go here.
But still, forcing people is evil. And you as an American should definitely view it as un-American IMO..
My oldest friend, 47 yo now, got partial facial paralysis from his first shot of the Phizer vaxx. Half his face literally hung down and he could only drink from a straw. That lasted about 8 days. It’s apparently one of the more usual side effects but strikes less than one in a thousand.
He was a bit reluctant then to take his second jab but his doctor not told him to but recommended that he’d go ahead. So he did and after the second jab he suffered no side effects at all.
So there ARE possible side effects.
Myself I got a really sore shoulder and couldn’t sleep on my left side. That went for both shots and on both occasions it lasted for about a day.
"Sorry to hear about your niece,"
I appreciate the sympathy, but ya gotta know that's not the point here. I wasn't looking for sympathy for the niece (looks like she's gonna be fine--couple of months to heal up and it'll be a memory). The point I was trying to get across is that she was seriously injured (even as it looks to be not permanent, it was still a serious hit on her in the present)--she needed medical attention and a hospital bed for a couple days (while they kept her under observation for the concussion if not for anything else) and yet she had to spend almost eighteen hours on a gurney in the hallway coming out of the ER 'cause our hospitals are filled up with unvaccinated people (people who'll probably die without the attention they're getting).
This is not the seasonal flu. This shit of the hospitals bein' backed up across several states with folks struggling to breath don't happen as the result of the seasonal flu.
NBC Special Report. Explosion at the Kabul airport--no further details as of yet.
Lee
“ This is not the seasonal flu. “
Agreed. It’s a slightly worse flu than the one we’re used to.
And when we’re at that, so cry me a river that your niece (that I don’t even believe exist) is somehow deprived of healthcare bc COVID victims are hogging all the beds and they are COVID victims bc they are un vaxxed. That’s the story you’re selling Lee?
People refuse vaxx
So people hog all the hospital beds
So Lee’s niece can’t get the proper attention.
I call BS on that.
Up yours! I ain't in the mood to play games with you over her situation.
There was an explosion at Abbey Gate in Kabul Airport and another at the Baron Hotel, which is close to Abbey Gate. Both US and civilian personnel are among the casualties.
I know they were warning people not to congregate outside the airport and had closed Abbey gate earlier, according to CNN.
I appreciate the sympathy, but ya gotta know that's not the point here.
Yes, I understand. Which is why I mentioned my friend's situation in the hospital. While she didn't wait as long as your niece, it was still too long.
Although in the case of our hospital this was the case even before the pandemic.
This shit of the hospitals bein' backed up across several states with folks struggling to breath don't happen as the result of the seasonal flu.
No, it does not. This is unusual. Even with my hospital's long wait time for a room, they always managed to find one, even if the patient was sent to their sister hospital in another city. They are about 20 minutes apart.
My oldest friend, 47 yo now, got partial facial paralysis from his first shot of the Phizer vaxx. Half his face literally hung down and he could only drink from a straw. That lasted about 8 days.
I know someone whose brother had a similar type of reaction, with Moderna. No, the vaccines aren't without side effects. That has been pointed out by health care officials, but for the most part the side effects are slight and temporary. Covid has a higher risk of severe illness and death. I played the odds and got the vaccine.
Collapse an entire society to prevent even one 90 yo from dying from a respitory decease in a nursing home?
The 90 year olds are for the most part vaccinated now. It is younger people who are dying.
And what happens when the vaccines really no longer work for severe illness? If the virus mutates to such a degree that we can't stop it?
12 US service members killed, 15 wounded.
Yes, I understand. Which is why…"
I actually caught that, (surprise, surprise, I'm not always dense 'bout things like that, usually dense maybe, but once in awhile…) but I was eager to cut off Marcus from the subject; preëmpt his inclination to pick it up. Didn't work.
I watched s but of Biden's remarks regarding the attack at Kabul and I have to say for a meek mild kind of guy he can actually be kind of scary when he wants. " We will not forgive, we will not forget, we will hunt you down and make you pay."
It was all in the delivery.
...a bit
*sigh*
I missed his public statement--'spect I'll be able to find it later tonight when I got some free time for it.
Found it; watched it. I see what you meant. He also got a little grim there towards the end where he was invoking The Book of Isaiah--not quite the same level of intensity as "We will not forgive, we will not forget…and etc." But he was heading back that general direction.
Lee
“ Up yours! I ain't in the mood to play games with you over her situation.”
Well fuck you too. I already said I wished the best for your “niece” that I doubt is real, but if she is I still wish the best for her. You, on the other hand can just go fuck yourself. (You said “up yours” and Lynnette let that pass so I can get nasty in return)
I simply do not believe that now a year and a half into this pandemic when we have a vaccine that suddenly Lee’s vaccinated niece is denied urgent healthcare bc the unvaxxed are hogging all the hospital beds.
I say you’re a fucking liar Lee and that never happened. You lie.
Lynnette
“ I know someone whose brother had a similar type of reaction, with Moderna. No, the vaccines aren't without side effects. That has been pointed out by health care officials, but for the most part the side effects are slight and temporary. Covid has a higher risk of severe illness and death. I played the odds and got the vaccine.”
Correct. I also played that same gamble. Even if I’m not that afraid of COVID I’m less afraid of the vaxx. Plus getting vaxxed lessens the risk I spread COVID to others who might get really sick or even die from it.
Lynnette
“12 US service members killed, 15 wounded.”
I read about that and thought such a waste. Young people dead and families in agony and for what? They were leaving anyway so there was no tactic or strategic point to it. It’s just sad.
Lynnette let that pass so I can get nasty in return)
I have never been much for the kind of censorship that Petes was into. I have only done that once, and that was to Zeyad. I have "known" both you and Lee for quite a while now and know that you can stand up for yourselves. You're no shrinking violets.
I simply do not believe that now a year and a half into this pandemic when we have a vaccine that suddenly Lee’s vaccinated niece is denied urgent healthcare bc the unvaxxed are hogging all the hospital beds.
Lee is right, Marcus. We do not have enough vaccinated people to stop the virus from spreading. We first started seeing it in the southern states, where vaccination rates are very low. But it has now spread to all of the country. Each state has pockets of low vaccination areas. My county has just moved up a little, but it is still too little too late. Last I looked the new cases were in the 80's or 90's per day. Up from 3 a day. This is enough to recommend even vaccinated people to mask up while indoors and in crowds.
One school that started classes on Aug. 19th had 36 cases with 290 students in quarantine in the first 5 days. Last year it took them 35 days to reach that level. The pandemic has morphed into a threat to younger people as they are not eligible or for other reasons are unvaccinated.
The unvaccinated amount to most of those who are hospitalized and dying. So far it is the most urgent down south; Florida, Missouri, Louisiana, Texas etc. I feel bad for those in Louisiana who are now facing a major hurricane on top of this.
I read about that and thought such a waste. Young people dead and families in agony and for what? They were leaving anyway so there was no tactic or strategic point to it. It’s just sad.
Very sad. But that is the mentality of ISIS-K. If allowed they will pose a threat not just to the Taliban and other Afghans, but to the world.
Interesting comment made by a reporter, he said the Taliban insist on all uniformed personnel leaving Afghanistan by Aug. 31. I have to wonder if those were the reporters words or the Taliban's?
The Taliban have been in talks with Turkey to have them run the airport after we leave. It will be necessary to keep that airport up and running. I would assume the Turks will want to be assured of security.
Gotta love Jen Psaki. When asked about Joe Biden’s intentions towards the ISIS scum who blew up the airport:
“I think he made it clear yesterday he doesn’t want them to live on this earth anymore”
That reply was so Boss!
https://news.yahoo.com/he-didnt-want-them-to-live-on-the-earth-anymore-psaki-clarifies-bidens-isis-k-threat-191828037.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLnNlLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEpFpU59qDaXRNQcZ6ZEsj7o7SiJi7SqQEx_h-DO8GoyaPKvyicYjEX9jAajNwCgdP9sem7NhWSdI9yAGdEppyj9WDspUy-1ByJN1XWEql88K-2WY-tPYRLF07ESuJMlMoLBqCsebISzcX8agvNlZYwMeKGQj1Sbj9dzYEETchwq
I really like her. Straight shooting and doesn’t dodge uncomfortable questions.
I like Jen too. She is intelligent, quick on her feet and a joy to listen to after the spokespeople that Trump had in that position.
Ida has made landfall and it seems that the levees are holding. I will keep my fingers crossed that this continues to be tha case.
"Phil Valentine, conservative talk show host, has died of
Covid-19."
Lynnette @ Sun Aug 22, 01:24 pm
The tally is up to three nationally known Radio-Right-Wing talk show hosts who have died of covid-19. In addition to Valentine, there's also Dick Farrel and Marc Bernier (both of Florida.)
And, on the subject of Florida… The Florida State Department of Education has defied an Order entered a couple of days ago by Leon County Circuit Judge John Cooper (State judge). They have declared the judge's Order to be "unconstitutional" and have withheld the salaries of the school board members of Alachua and Broward counties, which had mandated masks at school in their respective counties, in open defiance of the judge's Order that the salaries be paid as they come due.
So, now we got the folks at the Florida Department of Education claiming the power to overrule state court judges who decide cases against them or issue Orders they don't like.
Be interesting to see how far they try to play that one out. (Things gettin' downright weird in Florida.)
So can the judge order them arrested for contempt of court?
Arrested by whom?
Federal judges have their own U.S. Marshals, who serve as the "enforcement arm" of the court. Most state courts merely have "bailiffs" who maintain "order in the court" but don't have any authority outside of the courthouse. I suppose the offending Education Commissioners might voluntarily surrender themselves at the courthouse to the bailiffs for arrest, but my guess is they'll avoid going to Judge Cooper's courthouse unless compelled by some other power.
Biden will address the nation on the subject of the Afghanistan withdrawal at 12:30 CDT. Little over an hour from now.
first delay of the day--now reset to 1:45 CDT
Biden spent some time revisiting the many extraordinary efforts by the American military and the foreign service that went right during the Afghan withdrawal (and admitting his administration made a mistake in expecting the Afghan government to hold out past the first blink of an eye).
Later there was a reminder that we went in there because that's where Osama bin Laden had been hiding. If bin Laden had been lurking in Yemen instead, we never would have entered Afghanistan militarily, much less established a continuing presence there. (I thought that a most effective point.)
I was a little less impressed with his empathy for the poor soldiers and their families, with which he closed out his short address, but that probably resonated better with less cynical type people.
House Minority Leader, Kevin McCarthy, has threatened to shut down any telephone companies which comply with the House Select Committee investigating the Jan 6ᵗʰ putsch. (Soon as the Republicans take back the House, Senate, and the Presidency, and maybe impeach a Supreme Court Justice or two who might not go along.) Politico
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Louisiana Governor, John Bel Edwards has told New Orleans residents to not come back--indefinitely. The city's infrastructure just isn't there anymore to serve a city population.
The Mayor of New Orleans, LaToya Cantrell is considering further evacuations of residents who stayed and rode out the storm on account of there's no electricity (the city police chief mentioned that no electricity means no streetlights), no potable water, and no prospect of getting much of either any time soon. No clue for how many people they're potentially going to add to the rolls of those already evacuated nor for how long.
I believe I've noticed a trend in the reporting about Biden's 'Out of Afghanistan' speech. If the reporter (or editor) still believes in the neo-con ideals (or, even if they're just like ex-general David Petraeus--committed to keeping the war going because that's just what they do, wage war, plan war, or report on war, whichever…), if he or she still thinks we should have kept the war for the pacification of Afghanistan going, then they're liable to describe Biden's speech as "defensive".
If, like most of the American voters (although not most of the American politicians--nor even most of the reporters and pundits) they thought that the end to the Afghan escapade was long overdue, then they're apt to label Biden's 'Out of Afghanistan' speech as "defiant".
The 'correct' interpretation of the variation seems to rest mostly in the eye of the beholder.
By the way, in light of the disagreement among pundits, prognosticators reporters, editors, and other opinionators which I've noted above: It's probably time to duly note that the evacuation of Kabul, which started out as an open fiasco when the Afghan government fled, and the Afghan military wandered away, that fiasco of an evacuation got turned around in almost record time. They pulled 120,000 people out of there in just days (mostly, but not quite exclusively, people they knew they wanted to get out), right through the middle of a panicked crowd wanting to join the exodus. And right through a phalanx of Taliban who were only grudgingly letting them go on unmolested (and occasionally only after being molested in one form or another).
Biden wasn't wrong in noting that were a hell of a lot of things they got right, after that admittedly quite rocky start.
(Originally the estimates were only in the range up to maybe 90,000 Afghan "friendlies" for us to get out--we managed to bring out another 30,000 or more people beyond that.)
No comment necessary:
"Butler County [Ohio State] Judge J. Gregory Howard
ordered West Chester Hospital to treat [Jeffrey] Smith with
ivermectin for three weeks, as requested by his wife. The
judge made the decision even though the Food and Drug
Administration has not approved ivermectin to treat or
prevent covid-19 and has advised against that use…"
WashingtonPost
O M G!!!!
Sorry I couldn't help it.
House Minority Leader, Kevin McCarthy, has threatened to shut down any telephone companies which comply with the House Select Committee investigating the Jan 6ᵗʰ putsch.
I saw that. Taking a leaf from Trump's book. Use threats. I really hope they get something on these people that will force people to open their eyes.
The city's infrastructure just isn't there anymore to serve a city population.
That's a big city to have to rebuild.
My Dad worked for an electric company and worked on outages after storms. He was always a little irritated with those who said x number of people were out of power. Obviously, if there was nowhere to hook up a power connection to then they would be out of powwr. At that point being out of power was the least of their worries.
"…(mostly, but not quite exclusively, people they knew they wanted
to get out)"
Tonight's network news suggests that rumor isn't turning out to be true.
Joe Rogan has covid-19 and is treating himself with ivermectin. WashingtonPost
Given McCarthy's threat against telecommunications companies this was to be expected.
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is among a group of GOP lawmakers whose phone records are of interest to the select committee investigating the deadly January 6 riot on Capitol Hill, CNN has learned.
The administration has been focused on American citizens left in Afghanistan who may still want to leave. Their number seems to fluctuate between 100 and 200, currently standing at the low range.
However, there are far more people left behind in Afghanistan who are still seeking some escape route. Our elected officials have been inundated with calls for help and are still working to get them out. The ramifications for young people in Afghanistan who have no clue as to what life was really like under Taliban rule before loom large.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we have our own version of the Taliban in power in Texas, forcing women to comply with their religious authoritarianism. Texas has now passed a restrictive abortion law which pretty much ends the practice, forcing women who want an abortion to travel out of state. The Supreme Court of this land has rolled over and chosen not to rule against the law.
During the pandemic, Rogan has used his platform to flirt with coronavirus misinformation. In April, he said young and healthy people don’t need to get vaccinated. After an outcry, he told his audience not to take his advice seriously, saying he’s not “an anti-vax person” or a doctor, but rather “a moron.”
Well, he is right sometimes.
"Given McCarthy's threat against telecommunications companies this
was to be expected."
Put more accurately--McCarthy's personal phone conversations with Trump that day have, for a long time now, been an item of special interest to all who've wanted to figure out how deep into the insurrection McCarthy and Trump both were. McCarthy called Trump personally during the insurrection and people who could overhear McCarthy's side of the conversation have alleged that it got loud and contentious (McCarthy apparently didn't want to get hung by mistake alongside Mike Pence). This is not news.
"The Supreme Court of this land has rolled over…"
Well, I've never been a big fan of abortion. However, I'm even less a fan of having white-haired old men ordering the sex lives of nubile young women. I guess one could say I am "pro-choice" in the sense that I figure the woman who has to bear the brunt of being pregnant ought to be the one who chooses whether or not she has to bear the brunt of being pregnant. Somebody's gotta make that choice, might as well be her.
But, being as I've never been personally affected, that's not something that'll greatly impact my vote.
However, it does look like the kind of decision that will bring the High Court into further disrepute.
I guess one could say I am "pro-choice" in the sense that I figure the woman who has to bear the brunt of being pregnant ought to be the one who chooses whether or not she has to bear the brunt of being pregnant.
Exactly.
Post a Comment