They were called the Robber Barons.
They were the wealthy businessmen who helped build and helped exploit
the unfettered capitalism that was the norm for the early United
States. With little government oversight they amassed huge fortunes.
We have come to assume, perhaps, that
all government regulations are bad. But many of us have forgotten,
or don't realize, that some of those regulations have been put in
place to help smooth out the disparities of American lives. As we
listen to our politicians claim that they represent us it might be
wise to look beyond the rhetoric that has been at play and dig into
the meaning of what is actually being said. We have gotten a peak at
the proposed health care reform and the budget of the new
administration. Both should have been eye openers for Americans of
all walks of life. But, perhaps, until the effects trickle down
people won't come to understand the real life effects they would
have.
America has always been a land of
opportunity. There is nothing wrong in that. But whose opportunity
will it be in the future?
Do we want to help those who have
little? Do we want to attempt to provide them, via education or
health care programs, with those opportunities that allow them to
prosper?
Or are we willing to sacrifice our
people's ability to climb the economic ladder to the greed of new age
Robber Barons, who would act to enrich further themselves and their
friends via legislation?
Do we understand that what is at stake
will not just affect the lower income among us, but the middle class
as well? Do we want an America that looks after the elderly, the
disabled, and the poor? Or are we willing to sacrifice them on the
altar of greed that seems to be entrenching itself in Washington
D.C.? Do we understand that if we remain silent we are complicit?
113 comments:
Or do you as Americans strive for a super-rich upper class working hand in hand with a rich & cozy Washington establishment in maintaining their place at the trough while stiffing the working class and recently also to the middle class while importing hordes of low paid serfs and virtue signalling about what GOOD people they are - Vote Dem!
I mean really. More open borders and more affirmative action programs are surely the antidotes to American woes, right?
Erdogan tells the turkish diaspora to "have not 3 but at least 5 children" in order to conquer Europe by demographics:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/three-children-not-enough-have-five-erdogan-to-turks-in-eu.aspx?PageID=238&NID=110942&NewsCatID=510
So.... if 50 years from now the US immitates cenral america and Europe immitates the middle east.... was that progress? Really?
White western culture got shot down and torn apart and that was a good thing
?
More open borders and more affirmative action programs are surely the antidotes to American woes, right?
The budget cuts proposed by the Trump administration are targeting those who have the least resources to make up for the lack of funding, such as Meals on Wheels, a program to help seniors, or rural programs designed to fight poverty in areas such as Appalachia. They are also targeting programs designed to help our environment recover from the ravages of past uses, such as the cleanup project for the Great Lakes. Their health care reform includes allowing premiums for older premium holders to be priced at 5 times that of younger people, instead of 3 times under the ACA. Medicaid expansion would be cut. Medicaid is a source of funding for the elderly who are receiving care in our nursing homes as well as the low income disabled. Who picks up the tab for that if it is eliminated?
This is about far more than the role of immigrants in our country. It is about gutting entire programs that are helping maintain a livable world. I have always been a supporter of our military and believe that there are areas where funding could be increased. But not at the expense of everything else. I see a budget designed to cut expenses without raising revenue. Protectionist trade practices aren't going to help our bottom line. Tax breaks for the wealthy benefit the wealthy.
Erdogan tells the turkish diaspora to "have not 3 but at least 5 children" in order to conquer Europe by demographics:
That's always an option for native Europeans too.
@ Lynnette,
Your clip of Shorthands' Florida estate reminds me that I was reading just a few days ago about how closely Shorthands' design tastes mirror those of the average third-world tinhorn dictator. Saddam Hussein has been specifically mentioned a couple of times. one time , another time, more times But, it's not limited to Saddam Hussein. A solid majority of third-world tinhorn dictators would feel right at home in Shorthands' homes. I don't guess that proves anything, but…
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On a more important note: I'd note that America didn't become a world superpower during its ‘Robber Barons’ phase. We did manage to leverage a bunch of free land and free resources into a position as a second tier power leading up to WWI (‘free’ is not the word the original inhabitants would have used--‘stolen’ would more likely be their description). However, America didn't gain superpower status until about the time we started building out a large middle class and, compared to European economies, a rather smaller upper class. Those two things coincided. There are people who'll argue about finding causation there (and there are reasonable arguments to make against finding causation), but I'm prepared to argue that causation isn't the issue--it's the correlation that's important. If we want to remain a superpower we need a comparatively large middle class, large compared to what we're developing in today's economy.
The Reaganomics, trickle down, supply siders, (call ‘em what ya will), they got it wrong. The government is supposed to redistribute income. That's a large part of what a govenment is for. And that's gotta continue to happen if we intend to remain a first class economic power. It had to happen to get us to this point; it's gotta keep happenin’ if we're gonna maintain our position. Economic redistribution is a good thing. The Republican Party's hostility to economic redistribution as government policy is totally misplaced if they want to keep the country strong and vibrant. (If they just wanna personally stay on top of the heap a little longer, well that's an entirely different matter and their economic models begin to make more sense for that.)
"White western culture got shot down and torn apart and that was a
good thing"
‘White western culture’ brought us rivers that catch on fire, acid rain, air that one cannot breathe, global warming. It brought us intercontinental commerce in human slaves, some 12½ million of them coming out of Africa across the Atlantic. (And only about 3% of those, less than 400,000 coming to the United States in spite of the fact that we get all the publicity. A similar market in African slaves sent to the Muslim world cannot be blamed on ‘white western culture’, so I'll ignore it for now.) It also brought you two "world wars", with all that entails. I could make a list.
A bit of mitigation of the ‘white western culture’ very well might be a good thing.
Nevertheless, I would point out that we've become rather more selective about whom we let in than is most of Europe. Granted there was once a time that the American government was desperate for citizens to fill up all that land they'd claimed (or purchased) before some other ‘white western civilized’ country came over and took it for themselves in spite of the fact that it was already claimed. But, that was a long time ago, as Americans reckon these things. We're rather more selective these days than you are; have been more selective for decades now. So, I'm not impressed by your ragging on about our immigration policies.
We do have some limited immigrant problems, but they're not of the sort that plague Sweden. The solutions you seem to want for Sweden we certainly do not need. In fact, our biggest immigrant problem is the numbnuts who're trying to blow up that issue beyond its importance to distract people from some fairly real economic challenges we need to deal with.
You might approve more of this article by George Friedman, more than you approve of his estimates of Vladimir Putin anyway, or of what you fantasize our immigration policies to be.
We have only a very few cases of non-citizens managing to vote each year. this is one.
Israel threatens to destroy Syrian air defenses if they shoot at another Israeli plane
Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman has warned Syria that Israel would destroy its aerial defense system if Syria fired an anti-aircraft missile at Israeli aircraft again.
Speaking on Israel public radio Sunday morning, Liberman said, "The next time the Syrians use their air defense systems against our airplanes, we will destroy all of them without thinking twice."
His threat comes after Syria fired anti-aircraft missiles at Israeli military jets overnight Friday.
This is one of those times when you really will miss a capable, and available, State Department head and a President that is, well, a capable and wise leader.
Your clip of Shorthands' Florida estate reminds me that I was reading just a few days ago about how closely Shorthands' design tastes mirror those of the average third-world tinhorn dictator. Saddam Hussein has been specifically mentioned a couple of times...
I have thought of that same comparison. So much so that I was looking around for gold plated bidets in that clip. I also thought the extreme difference in the economic conditions of those people in Baltimore and Trump & Co also reminds me of Iraq.
@ Lynnette,
Keep an eye out for Devin Nunes, Republican Congressman from California, in the coming months. He thinks he's gonna be the new Trey Gowdy.
However, America didn't gain superpower status..
I would also suggest that along with creating that middle class there were enough intelligent, free thinking people in the country to recognize real talent no matter where they found it, and harness it, to further our country's rise as a superpower. The color of one's skin did not limit some of the really amazing people in our past, and hopefully not in our future.
(I am feeling the need to do a movie post again, but that will have to wait a bit, since I just did this one.)
Lynnette: "or rural programs designed to fight poverty in areas such as Appalachia."
They don't want handouts, the want jobs paying a wage you can live on.
Lynnette: "That's always an option for native Europeans too. [having 5 or more children]
Aren't you one of the ones who worry 'bout the environment? Could you possibly be so dimwitted as to not understand that over population of this planet with finite resources is the #1 problem? Why should we import into Europe migrants from very different cultures who do raise many children and respond to that by raising more children ourselves? Instead of just restricting immigration down to close to zero and maintaining our present numbers? Why?
Also if we did as you suggest we do and have mass immigration AND a higher birth rate how long do you think that would be sustainable?
Lee: "‘White western culture’ brought us rivers that catch on fire, acid rain, air that one cannot breathe, global warming. It brought us intercontinental commerce in human slaves, some 12½ million of them coming out of Africa across the Atlantic."
Moved on from there, as you well know. Yes the slave trade was a great shameful eisode. But it was hardly only blacks who were slaves back then, and hardly only whites who were slave masters.
Rome was built on the backs of slave labour, mostly white slaves. In Sweden we had slaves for a long time, white slaves.
In Africa and China and all (or most) other lands they held slaves. Who do you think built the Great Wall of China? Who built the pyramides in Egypt? Slaves, and their masters weren't white.
So talking 'bout "White Civilisation" can we at least try to not to dig too deep into history archives? Let's say from the enlightening and onwards.
Keep an eye out for Devin Nunes, Republican Congressman from California, in the coming months. He thinks he's gonna be the new Trey Gowdy.
Probably both had substantial donations made by the Koch brothers, or their friends, for their campaigns.
"But it was hardly only blacks who were slaves back then, and
hardly only whites who were slave masters."
In fact that was indeed exactly the way the TransAtlantic slave trade worked. Blacks as slaves, whites as slave traders (and masters). It did not work the other way ‘round.
They don't want handouts, the want jobs paying a wage you can live on.
Yup. Just exactly what a programs focusing on education might help provide.
Why should we import into Europe migrants from very different cultures who do raise many children and respond to that by raising more children ourselves? Instead of just restricting immigration down to close to zero and maintaining our present numbers?
If you restrict immigration and have a low birth rate will that maintain your present numbers? Won't you just have the Japan effect? But in any case it is Sweden's choice as to who they allow into their country, not mine.
As to the most serious threat to our planet, I still think that has to do with global climate change. I think that is where some people in our country have seriously miscalculated.
And the TransAtlantic slave trade post-dated the European ‘Enlightenment’ by about a century (with considerable overlap).
By the way, it should not go totally unnoticed that the Trump administration has been openly beating their war drums against North Korea and virtually nobody is taking them seriously, including Republicans in Congress.
FBI Director James Comey is set to testify today before the House Intelligence Committee. Expect him to be given ample opportunity to contradict Trumnp's claims that the Obama administration ever bugged or even surveilled Trump or Trump Tower or the Trump Presidential Campaign.
TrumpTweets: Today's specials are preemptive strikes against James Comey's testimony (it's all ‘fake news’ drummed up by a failing media to cover for their bad polling prior to his election--in spite of the fact that their polling was actually right on; it was their predictions of a higher Democratic turnout that turned out to be off), and praise for (surprise, surprise) FoxNews (which was equally off target on predicting Democratic voter turnout, but is solicitous of his administration now that he's been elected).
Shorthands sent Sean Spicer out to conduct a ‘press conference’ in real time while James Comey was giving testimony before the House Intelligence Committee. I think that's a clear indication that they recognize this story ain't developing well for them.
From the headlines it looks like Trump is just going to ignore Comey's assessment of no wiretapping and possible Russian collusion in the election.
I started that book "Dark Money", by Jane Mayer. Very interesting.
"From the headlines it looks like Trump is just going to ignore Comey's
assessment[s]…"
I'm lookin’ at a tweetstorm coming out of the White House (POTUS-tweets) which strongly suggest otherwise. These are on the official White House account, not Trump's 3:00 am on the shitter phone, so that suggests he's got his staff working with him on these.
(You'll have to let me know how that book goes when you're done with it.)
These are on the official White House account, not Trump's 3:00 am on the shitter phone, so that suggests he's got his staff working with him on these.
That looks to be the case. The tweets with their supporting video clips seem to be careful put a spin on the info that is more favorable to the White House and Trump. The video clip regarding evidence of collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign appears to be cut as it skips a portion of Comey's response to a question regarding former DNI Clapper's report. An amateurish job.
(You'll have to let me know how that book goes when you're done with it.)
The introduction alone is enough to give one nightmares. It appears that the Koch brothers and their corporate brethren were intent on ensuring control of both houses of Congress by Republican conservatives to further their agenda of deregulation. They were also instrumental in the races for state legislatures and local offices in an effort to control legislation and the gerrymandering of congressional districts, thus securing control of the House of Representatives for the future. While they did not support Trump they have played a role in the career paths of those around him, including Mike Pence. Many of Trump's picks are of the same ilk, including those at the EPA. Looking at what Trump is doing in gutting the EPA it appears to be straight out of the Koch's playbook. As does much of the budget proposed. I am thinking that if for some reason Trump does not continue in office, perhaps due to illness or some sort of wrongdoing which causes impeachment it will not affect this agenda. The people are already in place to further it.
P.S.
The major flaw in these people's agenda, besides the protectionist trade practices Trump seems to favor, which could hurt their businesses, is their huge miscalculation on climate change. In that regard they have let their greed send them down a fool's path.
"it appears to be straight out of the Koch's playbook. As does
much of the budget proposed."
I've been telling Marcus (and you, but mostly Marcus) that Trump has adopted the Republican orthodoxy, pretty much lock, stock, and barrel.
"I am thinking that if for some reason Trump does not continue in
office, perhaps due to illness or some sort of wrongdoing which
causes impeachment it will not affect this agenda."
So, you can see why I've been saying that I don't want to see people rushing at an impeachment. Very little benefit in that when the replacement is Pence. Conversely, a full dose of Trump may well have a therapeutic effect on the dedicated Trumpkins. So, just as well that he stays put where he is for a while. (For now, at least; I suppose he could get angry enough that this changes.)
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"The major flaw in these people's agenda, besides the protectionist
trade practices Trump seems to favor, which could hurt their
businesses, is their huge miscalculation on climate change."
They court revolution, violent, bloody revolution. It's often forgotten these days, but Teddy Roosevelt is on Mount Rushmore because he was credited with breaking up the financial monopolies and ‘trusts’ of an earlier ‘golden age’ and turning back the movement which resulted a few years later in the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. There was a real danger of that happening here, but Roosevelt went about a revolutionary financial redistribution by legal means and that took the air out of the sails of the American Communist movement. Teddy Roosevelt effectively saved the country a generation before his nephew Franklin came along; that's what got Teddy up there with Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln.
The revolution may get them this time, the Kocks and their ilk, before climate change does (be bad for us, may be too late stave off the climate ‘tipping point’--and it won't be Communists; they've been discredited as a socio-economic program, but it may well be a ‘populist’ fascist movement if we don't stop the ‘Establishment’ Republican agenda first).
I can already predict how this all gonna turn out.
Eventually Team Trump will decide that since the government was wiretapping the Russians (and they were, FBI, CIA, NSA, somebody was wiretapping the Russian--we pay ‘em billions of dollars a year; they damn well better be wiretapping the Russians), since somebody was wiretapping the Russians and some of Trump's people got caught up in those taps, then THAT must be what Trump actually meant, is what Trump actually meant when he said that Obama had ordered him tapped. (Nevermind that by now they're not talking about Trump, nor even Obama for that matter.) And the Trumpkins will all nod their heads, secure in the knowledge that they alone know the secret handshakes and magical words that bring wisdom, and they'll say, ‘Well, of course that's what he meant’.
This for the guy whom they once cheered for supposedly ‘telling it like it is’. What kinda irony is that?
The United States has imposed an emergency ban on passengers' electronics in the cabin (except cellphones) from eight (8) Majority Muslim Countries in the Middle East and Africa. The ban does not concentrate on the Majority Muslim Nations that Trump had sought to include in his earlier travel ban. WaPo
One unfortunate result of Trump's compulsive and quite possibly pathological lying to date is that I don't know whether or not to believe the Trump administration on this. I'm just not sure.
Editorial by the NewYorkTimes: We need a Select Committee like the Watergate Committee.
I've mentioned this before. That's probably one of the two best options; a Special Commission, like The 9/11 Commission is the other best choice. I'm not sure I've come to a conclusion about which would be better; both have points to recommend them. A Special Prosecutor is the next best option on my list.
This will not get settled in a partisan Congress like we have these days, and will likely have for the foreseeable future (pending the implosion of the Republican Party--all bets are off after that next step is taken).
Okay, this is not a good sign. Devin Nunes, Republican Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee said just yesterday that he had never heard of either Carter Page nor Roger Stone (our foreign friends will be forgiven if they haven't heard of these guys, as they're secondary characters in the Trump/Russia story; they're two ousted Trump campaign advisors who were let go after their connections to the Kremlin became public knowledge, but they were let go way back when, during the campaign). MotherJones
But, any American following this story at all closely has run across these names at least a couple of times before. "I don't know who they are", is not an acceptable answer for the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. This is not a good sign. (Especially since Congressman Nunes specifically mentioned both of them last month in an interview with FoxNews when he said he had no immediate plans to subpoena either man--if he's actually forgotten who they are in that month that's a bad sign too.)
It looks like the UK is also banning some electronic devices. Although their ban is not quite so comprehensive as ours. I suppose if the Brits are also doing it there might be something in this. And, as the article states, it's been done before.
"I suppose if the Brits are also doing it there might be something in
this."
I should think so; British Intelligence isn't likely to be in a mood to give cover to Trump just for Trump's sake. Not after he accused them of spying on him on Obama's behalf.
From my link to an article in a previous comments section:
What puzzled them was why a Russian bank was repeatedly looking up the contact information for mail1.trump-email.com.
Publicly available internet records show that address, which was registered to the Trump Organization, points to an IP address that lives on an otherwise dull machine operated by a company in the tiny rural town of Lititz, Pennsylvania.
From May 4 until September 23, the Russian bank looked up the address to this Trump corporate server 2,820 times -- more lookups than the Trump server received from any other source.
As noted, Alfa Bank alone represents 80% of the lookups, according to these leaked internet records.
Far back in second place, with 714 such lookups, was a company called Spectrum Health.
Spectrum is a medical facility chain led by Dick DeVos, the husband of Betsy DeVos, who was appointed by Trump as U.S. education secretary.
Together, Alfa and Spectrum accounted for 99% of the lookups.
Betsy DeVos
From the book "Dark Money":
Some donor families had clearly committed tax crimes, Richard DeVos, co-founder of Amway, the Michigan-based worldwide multilevel marketing empire, had pleaded guilty to a criminal scheme in which he had defrauded the Canadian government of $22 million in custom duties in 1982. DeVos later claimed it had been a misunderstanding, but the record showed the company had engaged in an elaborate, deliberate hoax in an effort to hoodwink Canadian authorities. He and his co-founder, Jay Van Andel, were forced to pay a $20 million fine. The fine didn't make much of a dent in DeVos's fortune, which Forbes estimated at $5.7 billion. By 2009, DeVos's son Dick and daughter-in-law Betsy were major donors on the Koch list and facing a record $5.2 million civil fine of their own for violating Ohio's campaign-finance laws.
This is just one example of the types of people Trump has put in place to govern.
They court revolution, violent, bloody revolution.
Very possible.
There is a show on PBS Frontline tonight at 9:00, "Iraq Uncovered". It is about the impact of ISIS in Iraq. I don't know if it is a repeat or not. It is listed as being new.
My local CBS is doing pledge week. It's in its third week of pledge week and I'm getting really fed up with them. Tonight we're getting "Relationships--Joe Bonamassa: Live at the Greek Theatre", which I guarantee you is a repeat. (Crowd favorite in redneck country I guess.)
That should be PBS--not CBS.
In what appears to be a clear attempt to compromise the FBI investigation of the White House and assist Team Trump in the preparation of their defenses (both political and legal), Republican Congressman and Intelligence Committee Chairman, Devin Nunes is taking what he's found out to the White House to brief the targets of the investigation on what he knows so far. Politico.Com
It's started already:
"Eventually Team Trump will decide that since the government was
wiretapping the Russians…and some of Trump's people got caught
up in those taps, then THAT must be what Trump actually meant, is
what Trump actually meant when he said that Obama had ordered him
tapped. (Nevermind that by now they're not talking about Trump, nor
even Obama for that matter.) And the Trumpkins will all nod their
heads [and] say, ‘Well, of course that's what he meant’."
Lee C. @ Tue Mar 21, 05:13:00 am ↑↑
The Trumpkins are circling the wagons, refusing to speak to anyone besides themselves, and convincing themselves that this is what their fearless leader intended to say (never mind what he did say; we can't be expected to deal with that now; we have a fantasy to construct). They'll be full of it when they uncircle themselves and come out again, and they'll not be able to accept that we don't understand this is the new truth. Our failure to accept it will be proof enough that there's a plot afoot against them and against their fearless leader.
I'm not sure whether the British response is necessarily to be credited, possible these attackers were simply inept, but they only got two civilians and one cop before they were stopped. On its face that seems like a cause for praise for the Brits' first responders today, maybe even the civilian response factored in; I'm willing to go with that story for now. Maybe the story will change as it gets filled out, but for now I'm willing to go with credit to the resistance.
Only the one attacker I've noticed; same guy, both places.
The first Trumpkin to fall?
Last year, Kraig Moss sold the equipment for his construction business in upstate New York and stopped making mortgage payments so he could follow Donald Trump on the campaign trail.
The amateur country crooner sang pro-Trump ditties while strumming a guitar emblazoned with Trump campaign stickers, earning him the moniker "Trump Troubadour."
International media dubbed him "the voice of unheard America."
But now, Moss refuses to play the guitar with the Trump decorations. He's soured on the President because of the newly proposed Republican health care bill.
It's sad that so many people who have already suffered will be hurt further by the actions of a con man.
They are apparently finding possible ties between the Russians and people within the Trump campaign to possibly coordinate the release of information about Hillary Clinton.
My question would be, what if there is real evidence, would there be some actual prosecution of some sort? How would this affect Trump and his administration? Would a majority of Americans start to lose what faith they may have in the administration?
And even if there is no prosecution, is this whole thing going to taint the Trump administration going forward?
It seems that the Koch brothers and their fellow donors have said they will withhold funding for any Republican who vote for the health care bill.
"The first Trumpkin to fall?"
From a strictly political viewpoint it would, of course, be preferable that the repeal portion of the Republicans' health care agenda be enacted. Then there'd be a fairly clear cause/effect relationship to what's coming next.
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"My question would be, what if there is real evidence…"
Lemme think on those questions a bit.
Meantime, I have thought of this part….
I get the impression, maybe it's just a suspicion, that somebody decided to confirm some information for CNN after Devin Nunes went to the White House and gave them the stuff he'd learned as Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Nunes thought he was doing the White House a favor by telling them what they had to defend against. He may have also prompted somebody to decide it was time to go ‘Deep Throat’ on these bastards.
Quaere then: Which is the more significant move? Nunes goes to Trump with what he knows? Or somebody decides to go ‘Deep Throat’ on their asses?
It's bad enough when the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee thinks he can get away with collusion with the defendants of a criminal investigation (think Howard Baker throwing his lot in with Richard Nixon, only this time think about there being a Manchurian Candidate thown into the mix for good measure). It's almost beyond my imagination that he thought he could do that publicly and get away with it. Tells us something about how loyal they think their dedicated Trumpkins really are. And that's kinda spooky on its own; we're talking treason here. And they think they can do this in public and get away with it.
I've been saying right along that the Republic can survive Trump. These people obviously don't believe that. They think they can get away with this.
We have yet to see who's right.
"My question would be, what if there is real evidence, would there
be some actual prosecution of some sort?"
Probably; almost certainly I expect--if they turn up real (and admissible) evidence.
" Would a majority of Americans start to lose what faith they may
have in the administration?"
I don't know that a majority of American have any faith in this administration. He has a dedicated minority. I don't know that he's ever had, or ever will have, a majority who have any faith in him at all.
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"And even if there is no prosecution, is this whole thing going to
taint the Trump administration going forward?"
Well, yes, almost certainly. However, Trump was already throwing a taint on his administration as fast as he could. Without a prosecution this'll likely do no more damage in the long run than Trump was already doing anyway. (Mind you, ‘a prosecution’ doesn't necessarily mean that Trump himself gets prosecuted.)
Der Spiegel interview with German intelligence chief
SPIEGEL: Some say that WikiLeaks is also partially controlled by the Russians. Do you have any evidence of that?
Kahl: It is, at the very least, rather conspicuous that the propaganda I have just described reaches the public through three channels: the television channel RT, the website Sputnik and the whistleblowing platform WikiLeaks.
Yeah, I think most folks have figured out by now that Wikileaks leaks information damaging to America, but not information damaging to Putin. (Marcus may be one of the few to whom this comes as a surprise.)
They are just speculating on CNN that Comey came out in public about the investigation because he was concerned about the investigation being compromised.
"Comey…was concerned about the investigation being compromised."
This was supposedly before Devin Nunes decided to brief the suspects on the progress of the investigation? Like that's not gonna ‘compromise’ the investigation? (Always a good thing from the criminal's point of view to already have the prosecutor in your pocket.)
One thing to remember. A criminal prosecution, even a conviction, doesn't mean Trump's not still the President of the United States. He'd still be the President even if he's sitting in a jail cell in Leavenworth prison after a conviction for treason.
Da‘esh has claimed responsibility for yesterday's terror attack in London. They have been known to claim ‘credit’ for attacks that were not theirs, but it's too early to know in the instant case.
Quaere here: Assuming the Republican's ‘American Health Care Act’ goes down the tubes today, as seems increasingly likely if they actually try to take that vote they've got scheduled: Who then takes the rap for that failure? Does Paul Ryan fall on his sword to protect Trump from taking the blame? And, if Ryan refuses to fall on his sword, or, worse yet, if Ryan points out that Trump took to 11th hour bargaining with the radical reactionary wing of the House Republicans (who call themselves ‘The Freedom Caucus’) and who went around Ryan to negotiate with Trump himself… If Ryan makes reference to that in order to dodge the blame, what's Trump gonna do then?
Neither of them wanted their names on this disaster of a piece of legislation, but both of them desperately wanted it to pass. Who takes the blame when it fails to pass?
It appears Devin Nunes recognizes that he's stepped in it. He's issued a half-assed apology for briefing the White House on the details of the FBI investigation of the White House. That is, he apologized for ‘going public’ with the information before letting his fellow committee members in on what what was in there. He did not specifically mention taking the info to the White House nor did he acknowledge that he shouldn't have ‘gone public’ at all. Left himself some room to go there if he has to, but for now he's hoping to get by with a half-assed apology and avoid the calls for sending this to a Special Committee where he can no longer provide cover for Trump and Team Trump.
New moslem terror attack in the UK yesterday. Maybe if we light up some tall buildings in the colors of the UK flag and get on Facebook saying #weareallthesame and let another million or so "refugees" in, then they will stop killing us?
Of course hikes in the wellfare programs so moslem mums can spit out a kid every 9 months and actually earning from it might also contribute to solving this problem.
I dunno how we can do any more really. Maybe gassing white CIS men? Seems a bit harsh but we're talkin' bout saving Europe here.
"Maybe if we… let another million or so ‘refugees’ in, then they will
stop killing us?"
He was a native-born Brit. Born in Kent. Probably a bad idea to try to blame this on ‘refugees’.
Lynnette: "As to the most serious threat to our planet, I still think that has to do with global climate change."
Do you seriously not get that any climate change driven by man will be a factor of how many people inhabit this finite environment we call Earth?
I've linked it before, you probably didnt have the time for it, so I'll link to it again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOykY2SMbZ0
He CLEARLY states that migration is one of the main factors driving population growth, and that that growth in itsel is the main problem we face.
Watch it. Or are you to lazy? Or are you too ideologically entrenhced to take in new points of view? (I know Lee is that, but I had hopes you might still have some small part of your brain open for alternative views)
Lee: "He was a native-born Brit. Born in Kent. Probably a bad idea to try to blame this on ‘refugees’."
Nope. If they behave like that and are prone to ideas like that even AFTER being born in the west and enjoying all the benefits of being raised in a western nation - then why the hell would we want more of 'em. It's a dragon seed - sure they might "behave" (apart from all the raping and rioting) in the first generation, then their kids will fucking try to blow us up.
It's actually an EVEN STRONGER case against muslim immigration that it's often the second generations who hate us and are more adapt at killing us.
I can tell you what we have here in Sweden:
#1 SERIOUS problems with new migrants, especially the "unaccumpanied children" and those problems are robberies, rapes and sexual harassments, mostly. Drugs too. Those are the crimes most likely to affect ordinary people, like you can't, just CAN'T, send your pre teen daugter to a swimming hall today for fear of some Hazar-creeps ganging up and groping or raping her.
#2 Second generation immigrants being behind much of the gang-crime and most of the shootings, grenade attacks and bombings we have here. Also these run the drug trade in the cities.
#3 More established criminals who use the #2 criminals as their henchmen. Now in the #3 tier there ARE swedes as well, such as MC-gangs and such, but immigrants from the Balkans who cae in the 90's are dominant.
Fact is, a huge portion of everyday crime is caused by immigration. And then we can talk about terror attacks. We've been largely spared those to date but there are (according not to me but our news papers) at least 150 returners from ISIS in Sweden right now. You wanna bet against any of them killing innocents?
"It's actually an EVEN STRONGER case against muslim immigration…"
You seem to be conflating the issues of immigration and refugees. You switch back and forth between them as if they mean the same thing. They do not.
"I can tell you what we have here in Sweden:"
Oddly enough, I'd just run across another article this morning informing me that crime was actually down in Sweden since 2005, your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. I thought about posting it here, but remembered that you'd promised us data to refute that claim once before, but blown if off instead. So, I decided there was no point in rubbing it in, and let it go.
Caveat: I recall the prior article specified that ‘violent’ crime was down in Sweden. I don't think it covered petty crimes or white-collar crimes or generally non-violent crime.
Lee: "Caveat: I recall the prior article specified that ‘violent’ crime was down in Sweden. I don't think it covered petty crimes or white-collar crimes or generally non-violent crime."
There is actually some truth to that. Violence in the home is down, drunken violence on the streets is somewhat down, but shootings are way up and serious sex crimes are too (draatically).
So the 'ol swedish drunken mele fight after the nightclub closes is down. Abdulkharam shoting his competitor dope dealer is up.
And of course the bombings are a whole new thin entirely as they were non existent a decade ago.
And, just as a closing notice. Your problems with ‘second generation immigrants’ reflect poor integration for which you white Swedish bigots are mostly responsible (or, at least more responsible than are the second generation immigrants--toss up between whether the right wing bigots bear more blame than the left wing ‘multi-culti’ types or vise-versa--but both sides bear more responsibility than do the second generation immigrants--although they're not blameless either--plenty ‘nuff blame to go ‘round).
No good reason to expect the immigrants would commit more rapes but less murders. Both are crimes of anger and hate. How's your murder rate since 2005? I'm given to understand that you've redefined what's ‘rape’ since the immigrant surge began, but it's real hard to redefine murder; that kinda requires a corpse, and politically inspired fabricators seldom wanna volunteer to be the required corpse. So, what's your murder rate compared to 2005?
Lee: "And, just as a closing notice. Your problems with ‘second generation immigrants’ reflect poor integration for which you white Swedish bigots are mostly responsible"
Well FUCK YOU SIR!
I never asked for arabs or africans. Dindn't wan't 'em here. I got 'em foisted on me nonetheless, I always said it was a bad idea which would only bring trouble, an when I am proven right it's suddenly MY fault?
YOU blame ME?
No, no, no!
FUCK YOU!
I was RIGHT from the get go. I will NOT be apologising now or ever. EVER!
Whether you wanted them or not, they are there. And you have your fellow Swedes to thank for that, not me.
But, since they are there you have to figure out what to about it now. Screaming insults at me is not a solution. You need to quit pretending anger is your answer and look for real solutions.
It may well have been a mistake to take in Muslims to Sweden. But, that's not my fault.
It is definitely a mistake to fail to try to integrate them now that they're there. Your failure in that regard is also not my fault. I'm not to blame for the fact that your side has taken what they consider to be an initial screw-up and then proceeded on to make it worse.
Yelling at me isn't gonna help. I'm not to blame for your mess--you partial are.
Assuming the Republican's ‘American Health Care Act’ goes down the tubes today, as seems increasingly likely if they actually try to take that vote they've got scheduled:
I just finished writing to my GOP House Representative regarding this bill and what is taking place in Washington in general. I know it will probably do no good, but I did not want to stay silent.
He CLEARLY states that migration is one of the main factors driving population growth, and that that growth in itsel is the main problem we face.
What is driving migration? If you think it is just war, I think you would be wrong.
I will check out your video later when I have more time.
"I know it will probably do no good…"
I'm not entirely sure what is good under the circumstances. Looks like this attempt is gonna fail. That means the dedicated Trumpkins will be at least partially denied the full-dose of Trump that would be their full and just reward.
The Republicans have canceled today's scheduled vote on repealing ObamaCare.
Word is that Trump doesn't have the votes to get his bill passed, so his solution was to have issued an ultimatum while he's holding the losing hand. (Likely it was Paul Ryan who carried the vote over in hopes of getting more votes--Trump apparently had enough of that and is gonna try to bluff his way through anyway--when that don't work he'll blame Ryan.)
Just for grins I kicker ‘er over to FoxNews. We've got the cleanup from a terrorist attack in London yesterday. We've got the breakdown of the Republican consensus in the House of Representatives and a very probable failure of a vote on repealing ObamaCare come tomorrow. And what do we have headlining the news over at FoxNews.Com? We have Possible Smoking Gun proving Obama Spied on Trump. I kid you not. That's the headline they're goin’ with tonight.
Another critic of Vladamir Putin has been shot down in broad daylight in a foreign city after having escaped from Russia. link
Another critic of Vladamir Putin has been shot down in broad daylight in a foreign city after having escaped from Russia. link
I saw that. They seem to be falling like flies.
Word is that Trump doesn't have the votes to get his bill passed, so his solution was to have issued an ultimatum while he's holding the losing hand.
It seems to be the beginning of the inability of the Republicans to govern that you mentioned in the past. They will either vote in a bill that is worse than Obamacare or they will let the current healthcare structure collapse, making it clear that they are unfit for office. At least from an average American's standpoint.
I suspect in either case our esteemed legislators will go home to even angrier town halls. Assuming they dare to show their faces.
Cheer up, Marcus. Canada just passed an anti Islamophobia, anti bladphemy motion today. Normalizing Sharia will be next. Your first feminist government in the world might follow soon, and it will be illegal for you to even rant against Muslim rapefugees. Self hating cucks like the old barn troll here will defend our right to rape and bomb your population into submission, and generally just turn your once beautiful countries into third world shitholes.
Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
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Blogger Lynnette In Minnesota said...
So what's up with this?
Scary, alarming, disheartening, unprecedented.
Those are just a few of the adjectives used to describe the recent widespread spate of bomb threats that have targeted Jewish Community Centers and schools in 33 states in the United States and two provinces in Canada.
Tue Feb 28, 04:38:00 pm
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Blogger Lee C. ― U.S.A. said...
That's what ya get when the fascists get emboldened. It's not like they don't know that Trump's one of their guys. (Well, Bannon and Miller, the two Steves, them at least, maybe even Trump too. Trump's tolerant at a minimum even if he's not fully onboard.)
Tue Feb 28, 04:44:00 pm
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Aaaand it's a false flag:
https://apnews.com/a6a67fb761304e3cae7497faa32dcdc9
So, your answer to the question of what's happened to Swedish murder rates since the immigrant influx is to change the subject? I guess that's a clear enough answer then.
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"It seems to be the beginning of the inability of the Republicans to
govern that you mentioned in the past."
That does seem to be coming to the forefront rather earlier than I might have guessed. If I'd have had to guess, I'd have guessed they'd hit their ‘cannot agree among themselves’ point when they tried to come up with a budget. And that's still a few weeks away.
Republicans have never actually been eager to cut the budget or the deficit (except for a minority on there on the extreme right-wing of what's become a cluster of right-wingers). They always tried to somehow force the Democrats to make those cuts, on account of cuts to services are unpopular, so they figured to make the cuts to taxes (those are popular), but force the Democrats to make the actual cuts to services. (For reasons they never seemed to be able to fully figure out, the Democrats never cooperated with them on implementing that plan.)
For whatever reason, they have hit their lock point earlier than I'd expected. From here on out it's all downhill as they discover that the only thing that's been keeping their assemblage together was periodic reference to the few fairly unproductive passions that did unite them. (Hence that FoxNews' headline whacking at that black guy who was once in the White House. He's not even there anymore, but that's about all they got to rally ‘round these days; a little backward lookin’ but that's what they got to go with today.) However, that's just a sideshow…
For now we gotta consider what happens after the House doesn't pass their ‘Repeal and Whatever’ bill tomorrow, and they won't. The Donald has made a fairly serious error here. Does he fold and let them keep working on this with limited hope of success? Or does he abandon his promise to ‘ger ‘er done’ and simply move on to something easier? No matter what happens, his image takes a hit and his self-delusion means he's gonna havta hit something or somebody in return.
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(Don't worry ’bout Zeyad there; he's not exactly been gettin’ a lot of rapin’ and bombin’ and pillagin’ done down there in San Antone. The constant exposure to real rednecks and full sized pickup trucks seems to sapped his Muslim vitality.)
"No matter what happens, his image takes a hit and his self-
delusion means he's gonna havta hit something or somebody in
return."
I hit that part, but then I forgot to get around to what happens to the Republican Congress.
I figure the fight starts right about now over who's gonna be in charge after the dust clears. Is it gonna be the Bible-Thumpers and the redneck coalition, or the Wall-Street/Goldman Sachs wing of the Party, or the "small government/libertarian" coalition, or maybe what's left of the Country Club Republicans? They've been papering over their differences on account of they figured they'd coöpt Trump and get him to sign whatever they stuck in front of him.
But, they can't agree on what to stick in front of him. That means they can't coöpt Trump. That means the fight's on startin’ now for whatever fragments are left of the Republican Party. But, it's already suffered a hostile takeover by Trump and the Trumpkins. Ain't much left really.
House Intelligence Committee Chairman, Devin Nunes, has publicly announced his unilateral decision to close the scheduled 28 March (previously Open) hearing on Trump's possible collusion with Putin to throw the presidential election to Trump. Democrats on the Committee are expressing outrage over this new move.
This points up a problem for Trump with the ObamaCare replacement. Trump needs Paul Ryan to back up Devin Nunes in the House as Nunes tries to squelch the investigation into Team Trumps' ties to the Kremlin. Trump needs Nunes to squelch the investigation; Nunes needs backup from Ryan. But Trump wants to blame his own screw-ups and his coming ObamaCare debacle on Ryan.
Ya'll can see how that equation just doesn't work out for him.
Slight correction; that hearing scheduled for the 28th has been unilaterally canceled by Nunes--not a close hearing, NO HEARING.
Back to the ObamaCare replacement. No vote today. Trump issued an ultimatum; they didn't flinch; Trump folded. So much for the him being the great deal-maker. Anybody could have done that.
Well, first word coming in is that Paul Ryan's decided to go along with Shorthands' backup plan which is to sabotage ObamaCare in place, with nothing to replace it. They're gonna go with the theory that they can sell the story that ObamaCare was failing already (the dreaded, much looked for but not yet found, ‘Death Spiral’), and that the best thing they can do is help it along that way without getting caught actually doing that.
Shorthands is probably right. That is probably their next best move politically. Otherwise they lose their base during the infighting. This gives them a story to tell to rally the base. (Hey, their ‘base’ is going along with the story that ‘Obama ordered me wiretapped and tampered with the election--sick, bad, evil Obama’, means instead that some Team Trump members got caught up in quite legal surveillance of the Russians after the election--which wouldn'ta happened if they'd not been dealing with the Russians in the first place. Their ‘base’ bought that one, they'll buy this one too. Question is, will anyone else?)
Okay, that was the good news from Shorthands' point of view. Ryan's gonna go along with him on that story.
Bad news is this. That seriously compromises Shorthands' plans for another major tax cut for the rich folks.
News, real news… Devin Nunes has now admitted that he didn't actually see any evidence that either Trump himself or Team Trump members were actually surveilled either during or after the election. He was seriously vague on what he did see, but one interpretation making the rounds is that it's possible he discovered that the Russians were talking amongst themselves about their contacts with Trump or Team Trump members. This could be really bad news for Trump, or not, depending on what the Russians said to one another, and how much of that our spooks managed to get on tape.
Does he fold and let them keep working on this with limited hope of success? Or does he abandon his promise to ‘ger ‘er done’ and simply move on to something easier? No matter what happens, his image takes a hit and his self-delusion means he's gonna havta hit something or somebody in return.
Weeeellll it looks like he folded like a house of cards and has now decided to blame everything on those evil Democrats who refused to stand up and vote for the crappy bill that the Republicans came up with. How dare they?
And it does appear that the Republican government has decided to let Obamacare collapse, in fact they have already begun to help it along. So then they can blame the Democrats for that as well. However, it is still a Republican led government in place. It is still their job to govern, and if there is a fire on their watch it is their job to put it out. Soooo...?
Zeyad! I've been wondering where you had got to.
No doubt you have been finding our totally screwed up government amusing.
"Soooo...?"
Well, the dedicated Trumpkins will be eager to believe whatever-the-hell-Trump-says-no-matter-how-outrageous-and/or-unlikely. That is, up to the point where they start gettin’ hurt themselves at which point they will quit listening to Trump unless he's telling them how he's gonna fix things. The Democrats might want to remember that the majority of beneficiaries of ObamaCare happen to be Trumpkins. They should probably craft their PR to that reality going forward.
And, just by the way, Trump has decided that he's not gonna hand any of the blame for today's legislative disaster to Paul Ryan. Trump must be really spooked by that investigation.
Watch it.
I have, Marcus. You did hear him say that he thought global warming was the greatest crisis facing man? It was at around 1:06.
Of course I understand that the Earth is finite, that it can't support unlimited population growth. Just like I understand that we are in danger of depleting our natural resources with over consumption.
Do you seriously not get that any climate change driven by man will be a factor of how many people inhabit this finite environment we call Earth?
Climate change is already with us. It may not matter how large the human population is if we are beyond the point where we could mitigate its effects.
Well, the dedicated Trumpkins will be eager to believe whatever-the-hell-Trump-says-no-matter-how-outrageous-and/or-unlikely. That is, up to the point where they start gettin’ hurt themselves at which point they will quit listening to Trump unless he's telling them how he's gonna fix things.
Yup, exactly. So no matter how many times Trump or the Republicans try to claim this is the Democrats fault, they will still run up against the very real fact that it is they who are running the government now and it is up to them to fix the problem.
"…they will still run up against the very real fact that it is they who
are running the government now and it is up to them to fix the problem."
I don't think Shorthands has absorbed that lesson yet. He's used to a different dynamic, one where he simply moves on to another set of marks once his current set of investors have figured out he's more con man than construction tycoon. I don't know how long it'll take him to discover there's not a new set of gullible voters just over the horizon, or even whether he's gonna figure that out.
Discussing the loss today Shorthands said, “We learned a lot about some very arcane rules”.
One rule especially seemed to astonish him--he needed a majority.
One rule especially seemed to astonish him--he needed a majority.
Perhaps because he ended up winning the presidency without one.
It may, I say ‘may’ have begun. His situation may already be getting a little shaky with his dedicated Trumpkins.
"Even the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal challenged his
credibility last Tuesday. They did this because, at this point, among
sane people, he quite obviously has none.
"The polling, meanwhile, is brutal. Gallup puts Trump a full 21
percentage points below average for presidents at this point of their
administration. Real Clear Politics’ poll of polls shows a new high in
disapproval this week, over 50 percent, and a new low in approval, at
43. Gallup finds him in the upper 50s of disapproval, and in the upper
30s in approval. Even GOP-friendly Rasmussen now has his
dis approval at 53. Quinnipiac sees his support among whites and
men falling….
Andrew Sullivan in NewYorkMagazine
The British terrorist who hit London this past week was born Adrian Russel Ajao and went to an Anglican private school as a kid. I've not yet found any reference to when he converted to Islam and changed his name to Khalid Masood, but it seems to have happened after he became an adult, perhaps he was converted in prison--he did a couple of stretches in jail, and was known as criminal trouble, but not previously suspected of terrorist ties.
Marcus’ proposed ban on Muslim immigrants probably wouldn't have kept him out, considering he wasn't a Muslim immigrant, nor apparently the son of one either.
@ Lynnette,
Ezra Klein over at Vox also thinks the Republicans are unable to govern, in fact that's right there in the title to his essay. Here's the money quote:
"Paul Ryan won fame designing budgets that were never meant to
pass, and by criticizing Barack Obama."
They have a budget deadline coming up. Ryan now has to design a budget meant to pass. I don't think he's got it in ‘im.
(Klein and Sullivan above are probably all the reading I'm gonna assign for the day.)
His situation may already be getting a little shaky with his dedicated Trumpkins.
The one dedicated Trumpkin I ran into recently dodged the issue by saying she is too busy, which I grant she is, to follow what is going on in Washington.
The one Bernie Sanders fan who voted for Trump is regretting it.
Why do I think Boehner is sitting back and chuckling just a little? Trump is going up against, not just the Democrats who he hasn't even involved in his policy making, but the massive "Freedom" Caucus, which is merely another term for dictatorship wanna be. The very shark infested waters that Boehner escaped.
That article was spot on, Lee.
And, now, I too am off to do errands and what not.
"The one dedicated Trumpkin I ran into recently dodged the issue…"
Seems to be a nationwide phenomenon. They do not wanna talk ‘bout their continued support for Shorthands outside the tribe. It seems to be spreading into the very furthest reaches of Trumpland. (The pundits, of course, have to publish, but, other than that…).
"… the massive ‘Freedom’ Caucus, which is merely another term
for dictatorship wanna be."
One can get that impression at first glance, but if ya look ‘em over just a little closer you'll discover, that, stripped of the rhetoric designed to make them look acceptable to the Bible-Thumpers, they're actually anarchists at heart.
I've been consistently running across articles/essays/Op-Eds which make the claim that the stock market has experienced a runup on account of investor confidence that Trump was could deliver massive deregulation, massive tax cuts and a massive infrastructure spending bill. Ran across more today…
Thought I'd take a minute to declare that this is bullshit. It's been bullshit from the beginning.
The Masters of the Universe don't actually expect Trump to deliver any of these things. What they expect is that they can make a killing on an ‘irrationally exuberant’ market and then get out of that market before their marks figure out that this is all a bubble. If there's any marks out there still hoping to ride this one out, I think I'll offer this piece of unsolicited advice. Time now to dump anything you were holding on speculation--if you're not holding it long-term, dump it now, before the Masters of the Universe beat ya to the punch.
(Unsolicited stock market advice may be worth even less than it cost ya, but I think I'm right.)
I suspect you are right and have been looking for places to hide. It is easy to make a small fortune when you are holding a large fortune. When you are not holding any fortune it is necessary to be cautious.
Early indications are that Trump's gonna try to get his surrogates and dedicatedTrumpkins everywhere to lay the blame for the TrumpCare fiasco on Paul Ryan, while Trump himself declines to go there. I'm thinking Ryan will not be fooled by this.
So, the fight for control of what's left of the GOP has begun; could get ugly folks.
This is probably a mistake by Trump. He needs Ryan to have the back of Devin Nunes who's trying to squelch the investigation into the contacts between Team Trump and the Russians. But, as I mentioned above ↑, Trump isn't used to gettin’ in fights where he has to stick around afterwards; he's used to movin’ on to a new set of investments and investors after he's been made as a con man by the current set.
He ain't got all his moves practiced for these long term fights.
By the way, just an observation by a dedicated non-Trumpkin, Trump got involved in negotiating on behalf of their new health care, ‘Repeal and Whatever’ plan and actually lost votes in favor of passage. The more he negotiated, the fewer votes the package had.
TrumpTweets: This morning Shorthands goes after ‘the Freedom Caucus’, the Heritage Foundation, and the Club for Growth, all three from the seriously ‘libertarian/small government’ wing of the Republican Party.
And, Trump had one of his spokesmen, Mick Mulvaney, Director of Trump's OMB, on Meet The Press this morning threatening to make common cause with the Democrats in the future. (Yeah, right, like that's gonna happen.)
More evidence that the fight's already on for the remains of the Republican Party. They're picking over the corpse already.
They are reprising that Vladimir Putin Fareed Zakaria special on CNN. I managed to catch the first part that I slept through last time. They go into a little of Putin's early years, his possible motive for attempting to interfere in the US elections, which we already know involved Hillary Clinton, and the celebrations that many Russians held in honor of Trump's election. Of course Putin's spokesperson denies any Russian involvement.
And, Trump had one of his spokesmen, Mick Mulvaney, Director of Trump's OMB, on Meet The Press this morning threatening to make common cause with the Democrats in the future. (Yeah, right, like that's gonna happen.)
I suppose that would depend on how Trump holds grudges. So far I am not seeing him really taking the welfare of the American people into account.
I don't think the Democrats would ever trust him enough to ally up with him. The Republicans didn't actually have much of a choice. They were as surprised as he was when he pulled out that electoral college win; but surprised or not, they were stuck with him and had to try to adjust. (That consisted of convincing themselves they could tame Trump and get him to sign whatever they stuck in front of him, but that merely raised another problem--can't agree amongst themselves on what to do, which makes Trump pretty much useless to them.)
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